100. Former US Army Special Forces Captian John Frankman
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John Frankman: [00:00:00] I think that maybe within the team room, there might be joking of, oh, it feels as though we're in our own unconventional warfare. There's psyops that are being used against us. I think that we saw on a larger scale. A lot of the misinformation was, yeah, communist divide tactics along different lines.

John Frankman: And being unvaccinated was just almost the worst thing that you could do. So I think we might have seen some similarities and seen a lot of problems with what was going on with the culture.

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Nurse Kelly: Welcome to After hours with Dr. Sigoloff, where he can share ideas and thoughts with you. He gets to the heart of the issue so that you can find the truth. The views and opinions expressed are his and do not represent the U. S. Army, DOD, nor the U. S. government. Dr. Sigoloff was either off duty or on approved leave, and Dr.

Nurse Kelly: Sigoloff was not in uniform at the time of recording. Now, to Dr. Sigoloff. [00:03:00]

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Alright, thank you for joining me again. I first want to give a shout out to my Patreon supporters. We have an anonymous family donor at 20. 20 a month. We have the Plandemic Ripper Mando with Ty, Charles, Tinfoil, Stanley, Donner Dr.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Anna. We have Frank, Brian, Shell, and Megan. We have Kevin who's made his own 10 level. We have the Refined Not Burned at 5 with Linda, Emmy, Joe, Pat, and Bev, PJ, Rebecca. Marcus, Elizabeth, Dawn, Jennifer, Ken, we have Addison Mulder, who made a 3 level, we have Frank at a 1. 50 level, and then we have the Courage is Contagious tier at 1 a month with Amanda, Jace, BestNasty, Durrell, Susan, BB King, and Rick.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I want to thank all the Patreon supporters for supporting me. If you're interested in having your name mentioned here, please go ahead and go on to Patreon, look me up, and start subscribing. So we have a very special guest today, John Frankman. John, tell us a bit about your story, because I'm seeing some things on the wall behind you there that would make me think [00:04:00] that you're a Green Beret.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Am I correct in that?

John Frankman: That is that is correct. I just left the military July 1st, was assigned at 7th Special Forces Group, so that was my last assignment.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And what were the... the particulars around you leaving. Was it, you're happy to go or is this kind of bittersweet leaving but know it's the right thing to do?

John Frankman: So I think it's more of the latter. It's a bittersweet leaving but I know it's the right thing to do and I'm at peace knowing I prayed, discerned, tried to figure out God's will and tried to follow it. But it was mostly around the COVID shot, the difficulties with that implementation.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And so what is the, and obviously I know you only can speak on your own behalf, but what kind of feelings were you getting around other people in your group, in your team?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Who were in the special forces who maybe did or did not want to get the shot? What was the feeling? What was the gestalt at the time?

John Frankman: Yeah. So like at the time you got to break it up into different periods. So I think 2020 was just a different year for [00:05:00] everybody and everyone was excited to get back going out the door in 2021.

John Frankman: And that's when the COVID shot started rolling out. And what I think you'll find talking to people who held out in special operations units is that the pressure that we received was a lot stronger before the actual mandate went out in August of 21, that it was a lot stronger beforehand. By and large, it seemed as though officers were more or less getting it.

John Frankman: I remember there being a sign up January, February of 21 on who wants to get the shot and just seeing that I was the only officer in my company who wasn't going to get it. A lot of the enlisted didn't really want to get it. And I think early on that first couple months, maybe 20, 30%, but there was just a lot of pressure and I didn't feel judged.

John Frankman: I'm very grateful for my unit. I think that obviously not trying to get Stockholm syndrome. I think there's more that leaders could have done throughout the entire process of this, but I know other buddies in different special forces groups, different units who had it. A lot tougher than me. So I think there was a frustration from some [00:06:00] leadership because as you might've read in my op ed, my team lost the mission because 10 of 12 of us were not vaccinated and it was to a country that did not have a vaccine requirement at the time.

John Frankman: And it was before the mandate went into effect. So yeah, more or less, it seemed that guys didn't want to get it. They acquiesced as first special forces command us army special operations command made it a requirement for deployments. For TD wise and they would change the amount of time that you had to stay in one location or to What do you call it?

John Frankman: Quarantine before, after exposures, things like that. So in order to be more efficient and you know how it is, they made it a readiness issue, so there's just a lot of pressure from the top to get it. I think guys at my level were more or less understanding.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Okay, and so did you see more of the, it sounds like more of the officer corps were ready to roll up that sleeve and get it without thinking about it, whereas maybe more of the enlisted said, Hey, wait a second.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I've seen this with anthrax before.

John Frankman: [00:07:00] Yeah, I think that special forces green rays are bread and butter is unconventional warfare for an internal defense, and that is operations activities taken to Queries disrupt, overthrow, and occupy in governments or power, and that involves different psychological operations.

John Frankman: And our selection process involves an IQ test. It involves team assessments. It involves trying to think outside the box and it's unconventional. We're not just trying to look at a cookie cutter answer. So we are supposed to ask. Those questions you're given an order and it's not just supposed to be, yes, sir, and go on.

John Frankman: It's supposed to be, why do you need us to do that? Is this, that the best thing? And one of the difficult things about having a more highly competitive group is that the officer corps, it is a little bit trickier to continue to progress that career. You have to get a certain number of most qualified OERs hit certain checkpoints.

John Frankman: And to be the unvaccinated officer or the team that is not able [00:08:00] to deploy just getting green boxes on PowerPoints through having the most vaccinated team. That's that are in points. And I remember team leader telling me, Oh yeah, I had the first team that was fully vaccinated. I'm like, bro, I hope that your team wanted to get it and don't have any heart issues later on.

John Frankman: But yeah, I just told my team as that as a senior Raider, I will neither punish or reward you. I personally don't want to. And then I think it's amazing that 10 and 12, the guys didn't, and they were well informed. So I think if other guys stood up that these numbers could have been much different.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And then you were a captain in the green Bray. Is that correct?

John Frankman: That's correct.

John Frankman: Yes.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Okay. And how long had

John Frankman: you been in? So total active duty time when getting out was about nine years. Okay.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Now you brought up a really interesting point that I never really put this together. I thought about it, but you.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And the Green Beret are, you're specialists in the you specialize in unconventional warfare. Now, was there any concern at the time throughout this that, [00:09:00] hey, this could be unconventional warfare used by our leadership against us?

John Frankman: So I don't know how many guys would, I think that maybe within the team room, there might be joking of, oh, it feels as though we're in our own unconventional warfare.

John Frankman: There's PsyOps that are being used against us. I think that we saw on a larger scale. A lot of the misinformation was, yeah, communist divide tactics along different lines. And being unvaccinated was just almost the worst thing that you could do. So I think we might have seen some similarities and seen a lot of problems with what was going on with the culture.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And the reason I ask that is I'm referencing my, I think it's episode 33 that I did, where I used public source documentation to show how the shot itself, not the vaccine, but the shot, was a bioweapon developed in part by China. And I have all the documentation. I show you the Bravo redaction code, which says that, to expose this part of this document would inhibit the application of the state of [00:10:00] the art U.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: S. weapons system, and I encourage any listener to go back and check out episode 33. It's, since then, we've now discovered that some of those redaction codes what was underneath it was Shanghai, China, was the testing location. And it makes you wonder if the guys in the Green Berets... Don't see this as a psychological operation, then it's that good.

John Frankman: Yeah, it was, it's incredibly disheartening to not see leadership look at just some of the common sense factors within it. As a religious issue, I took issue with it because every shot that was made was either. Involved using boarded fetal cells in the testing or in the production. And to me, that is the murder of an unboard child and the continued theft and use of its body parts.

John Frankman: It's not just from material that is here and present now. So that's a moral issue. And then just, do you need it? We all have natural immunity. Everybody's gotten it. My team, many of us went to get our blood drawn to get tested for antibodies to try to prove and show to [00:11:00] leadership. And then just the negative side effects.

John Frankman: We were tracking issue, heart issues. Early on so there was just absolutely no common sense piece of it. I think a lot of officers might say they try to be apolitical, but to me, trying to be apolitical in the military seems like you're trying to bury your head in the sand for the sake of your career.

John Frankman: That's my thoughts on that.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: No, I agree with you because episode 33, before I put that into an episode where I talk about the bioweapon, I took that to a commander and I said, sir, look at this. I said, I might be wrong. And if only 1% of what I'm saying is correct, then this is a terrible disaster on the entire military and you need to do something about it.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And his response was you may be right, Siglof, and it's a fight. You need to continue fighting, but outside the military.

John Frankman: And it's an incredible bait and switch, and we all know about just Pfizer and Comirnaty and that switch. And my team, I think we had a unique experience in that 10 of 12 of us were not vaccinated by the time the mandate [00:12:00] came out.

John Frankman: And a lot of people who aren't in the military might be like, Oh, that's fine. You weren't required to be vaccinated by then. No, that's an incredible feat. We were actually in the middle of the joint readiness training center in the middle of the woods in Alabama for two weeks. And during the 12 hour break that you have sent a major out to counselors, like that's how vehement they were in trying to get this done.

John Frankman: Fortunately, that got pushed off. I told leadership. That it's insane to expect these soldiers to make a career decision without the proper medical religious leave of work resources here in the field, to have them make a decision within 72 hours, whether they're going to receive a shot or not. And that if we're trying to tell soldiers that learning to train and fight to win wars is more important than administrative bullshit.

John Frankman: And we're doing this in the middle of the woods then. I can't convince them of that. And we're just not going to get training value. And unfortunately the training value did diminish, even though. We were able to push that off till later. I remember the Cadre saying we were one of the best teams they had seen, [00:13:00] but it definitely was very disheartening to think, Oh man, our leaderships, they're not really respecting our space, allowing us to train, but when we got back I think every, just about every soldier of mine, when they were getting counseled, they brought up the EUA distinction.

John Frankman: They said that community is the only one that got approval. Pfizer did not get the approval. How is this a legal order? And I still have my counseling statement. And it has various bullet points. One bullet point says that COVID's dangerous. Okay. COVID shots are safe and effective. And I put they're not safe.

John Frankman: That there's has 10, 000 dead at this point. I forgot what number is. I know it was like 30 K now, but. But it's not safe. We've had this many killed. It's also not effective. There have been a number of people who have been vaccinated. They still get COVID. Also, you said I'm ordered to receive an FDA approved, DLA labeled vaccine.

John Frankman: However, none of those are available, so I can't comply with this order. Disagree. And I think a few of my guys might have done that as well, so that was pretty fun. But I put the religious exemption in. Anyway, [00:14:00] I don't know, maybe I should have been gutsier and just let it go to the courts, but who knows.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, and I did it all, right? I did a medical exemption for myself, but that's not that's just me, that doesn't help anybody else. I gave out medical exemptions to service members, and I also put in a religious accommodation request.

John Frankman: Right and my team, we actually had to talk to the group surgeon.

John Frankman: So the group surgeon, the other group doctor, They, the week we got back from that month long trip to Louisiana, which is one of the least desirable kind of trips you can do if you've been we were, yeah, then forced to stay late to get counsel the first night to talk to the doctors the next day and just the most yes men you can run into.

John Frankman: It was incredible. And we're like, Pfizer community. They're like, Oh, medically interchangeable. We even brought up Dr. Long and what they said was like, Oh she was a little weird. It's really, can you want to try to respond to the arguments we're bringing up or the data we're bringing, instead of saying your data is good and our data is bad, it was just [00:15:00] infuriating.

John Frankman: And Yeah, definitely crushed morale. And then people had to wait till yeah. Late Thursday to once you had not gotten it. Yeah. Get the shot or get a go more.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's coercion. That's exactly what that is. Yeah. It's

John Frankman: Nuremberg. When I, yeah, when I was leaving the military, I had an exit interview with Fulbert just as a captain.

John Frankman: And I just asked a number of questions. Do you think this order was legal? Are you tracking, you need an FDA approved shot? Do you, have you heard of the Nuremberg Code? Are you doing anything to look into service members who have been hurt by this? There have been more medical things. I'm not going to speak to the statistics of it, but just weird heart attacks, things like that.

John Frankman: Yeah, there's,

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: There's an article out that Brad Miller, who's been a guest here, he did an interview with a service member and she's, I believe, about 21 to 23, somewhere in that age, and she's had three heart attacks already.

John Frankman: Yeah, it's so sad. It's insane.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So yeah. Tell me about your religious accommodation request, because you're Catholic [00:16:00] and you started talking about that a little bit, but let's go in deeper into what your argument was.

John Frankman: Sure, yeah in my background I am Catholic. When I was 15, I decided to become a Catholic, went through Rite of Christian Initiation for adults, and then in college, went to a Protestant evangelical school, where as a new Catholic, I was challenged in my faith a lot, and it made me love my faith more, and made me consider being a priest.

John Frankman: So I spent four years studying for the Archdiocese of Washington, D. C. in the Military Archdiocese with the thoughts of becoming a chaplain in the military. However, it's a six year program if you already have a college degree. I discerned out before receiving any ordination and then went from seminary to iBullock Infantry Basic Officer Leadership course, where my platoon nicknamed me the machine gun preacher and then thought, let's give selection a shot.

John Frankman: So yeah, the religious piece was, that was huge, but I think that the unfortunate thing that our culture does or that the military does in having you talk to a chaplain to make sure your reasons are religious. is it sees this distinction between [00:17:00] faith and reason, and it's not there. The God of the eternal law, the God of truth, he speaks to us through both the divine law and his revelation, but also through the natural law, through science, when done properly, through philosophy.

John Frankman: But I knew early on that the COVID shots all used aborted fetal cells. And I had heard the argument that is remote material cooperation, that if... The risk is grave enough, if there's sufficient danger, no other alternative, then it's something that you can use. I knew it wasn't that risky or dangerous for me to to not receive the shot.

John Frankman: At first it just seemed sketchy, but then as I continued to research and learn more I heard that it explained as though, even though it uses an aborted fetal cell that was developed in the 70s or harvested, killed in the 70s that we still, that, that was what, HEK 273, something like that, so 273 had been harvested beforehand, killed beforehand and it's the continued theft of that baby's body [00:18:00] parts.

John Frankman: So it's not only the sin of murder, but it's also the sin of theft. We have no rights to that baby's body. There is a reason why, when service members are killed overseas, We try to do everything we can to recover their bodies, to inter them here at home, because the body, it's the house of the soul, it's something sacred, and we should show respect to it.

John Frankman: That's not only for service members, but for human beings who, from the moment of conception. So just all of those various factors in there, and I really appreciated a priest putting it in terms of this, that, Thou shalt not kill is a commandment as well, and that means harming yourself too.

John Frankman: It's not prudential to get this shot, the risk reward. So he explained it as a mortal sin with regards to the aborted fetal cell, but also grave matter with regards to prudence. So if there's grave matter on both of those sides, it's just not the right thing to do. And just through prayer, discernment, trying to hear God's voice, I just found I was at more peace.

John Frankman: And I knew there were options of.[00:19:00] Getting the shot without getting the shot. And I just didn't want any of that because I think that causes the sin of scandal, where if I think that it's a sin, I can't do something that makes people think I did it and then cause them to fall into sin. So I was trying to find what's the best, most perfect way to try to glorify God.

John Frankman: And. I sin in a number of ways, and I know this issue wasn't clear, so it's, try to, stay as humble as I can, but that's just the choice that I feel God gave me the grace to make.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I was listening to Dennis Prager talk a while back, and he was talking about, it's a sin to lie, but is it a sin to lie?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: When you're in Nazi Germany, and you have Jews underneath your floorboards, and you're protecting them. And anyway, he walked through that, and how it's not a sin to lie. And some people use that as reason to fake their vaccine cards. But I think you bring up a better point, that we're not there yet.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: This actually isn't Nazi Germany, or at least not that bad yet. And to get a fake card, I think, will allow other people who would have stood, had they been standing with [00:20:00] others. Have allowed them to fall and I commend you on your stance of not doing that because I from what I can see from What I understand it seems like that was pretty rampant throughout especially this the community the special forces community to get the fake card

John Frankman: Yeah, I don't know I don't know anyway.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And throughout the military, just in general not only the special force community but the military. And it's because, I got to continue my career, I've got to feed my family. If you're an infantry guy and you don't have anything to fall back on, what, how do you feed your family?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: There's not a lot of jobs kicking doors and shooting people.

John Frankman: Yeah, and, God'll provide, and He'll bring good out of the evil. So I know it's a difficult situation. Everybody has different crosses to bear, and I know that mine has not been one of the tougher ones. But Yeah, he's definitely bringing some good out of this tough situation.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, and I think it's, I think the stance you've taken is commendable, and it's a wonderful thing, and it's a testament to God's glory that you're able to do that, and [00:21:00] to show people how it's done. Yeah let's get into some of your sacrifices that you had to give up for this which, obviously, the reward is worth any sacrifice, because you're not going to have those heart problems, you're not going to have those moral injury to yourself, you're not going to have those concerns about sin that, that it's not that we don't sin, we're all sinners and we've all fall short of the glory of God.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But we also don't want to purposefully go sin more just to get more grace because that's not really how it works.

John Frankman: Yeah. Yeah. I was pretty explicit about that. Yeah.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. But tell us some of the things that you've had to give up just Off face value, like right away, like you may not know in the long run, what that could have led to eventually, but some of the things you've had to give up.

John Frankman: One of the things was a J set to another country. And when guys join special forces, they go in order to deploy. That's like why you go into special operations unit, why you go through. Six weeks of SUT, three weeks of SEER, small unit tactics, three weeks of SEER, survival, evasion, resistance, escape, just a couple years at the qualification course and just hard, hard training [00:22:00] because you want to get out the door and you want to deploy.

John Frankman: And with Afghanistan winding down, there are not as many trips. So that the trips you do want to go do, you absolutely do everything you can to get to. And teams will try to show and maneuver how good they are in order to take advantage of those trips. And there's JSETs or Joint Combined Exchange Trainings.

John Frankman: That teams will get to go on it. And our team had one plan for six weeks. And in June of 21, before the mandate was out I think first special forces command changed it to where you needed to be vaccinated in order to go TDY. And my team was 10 to 12, not vaccinated at the time. So I talked to the company commander and he said, Hey, John, I know your team does not want to get the shot, but it's now a requirement.

John Frankman: So what's it going to be? Is your team going to get the shot or. Are we going to have to take the J set from you? Are you going to have to give it up? And I had talked to everybody about this situation beforehand, and there was only one person who would be willing to get it. So I just [00:23:00] told the commander you're going to have to take that.

John Frankman: And it was heartbreaking. It was tough. And that would have been my only trip out the door as a team leader. So that was one thing. And then after the mandate went into effect, team had another trip coming up and I had my team time cut short. So because they were going to go on a trip and I was not vaccinated.

John Frankman: I would not have been able to go. So got taken off the team early. I'm still appreciative of my leadership for trying to help me out career wise, not totally tanking my OER. So that was another thing. And then I was accepted to teach philosophy and ethics at West Point. So ethics, ha. And so it was through the Simon Center Military Ethics.

John Frankman: I'd gotten into all the schools I wanted to get into, was able to try to convince him to let me go to various Catholic ones, University of Dallas, Catholic U. And. I put the exemption in October of 2021, and I thought at least I'll know by next summer, which is when I will have to PCS. So summer of 22 was when I was supposed to PCS to go to two years [00:24:00] of grad school and teach for three years, and then I would have three more years of a commitment.

John Frankman: So I was going to be a career officer. That was what I made my decision up for. And that's a lot of security, a lot of knowing what you're going to do. And I just enjoy school. So unfortunately didn't get the exemption back in time, had to give up that opportunity. And then even after the mandate was rescinded, I called West Point, I called Human Resources Command.

John Frankman: And my contacts at West Point said they had already filled up their slots for teachings, that was one kind of impossibility. And then the other was that Human Resource Command said I was already up for a Promotion II major. And that means that they couldn't change my year group. So just these rules and it's like, what am I going to do?

John Frankman: I just spent a year in the three shop. Am I going to be a year and a half, two year post team captain, just trying to continue on and take a company. And it just totally threw off the trajectory of the career as well as other ILE.[00:25:00]

John Frankman: a trip there and I wasn't allowed to go TDY. So traveling within the country was something I was not allowed to do while the vaccine mandate, while my religious exemption was pending. Which is funny, because I went to Spain a couple times I don't know, it's just yeah, it's, welcome to Wally's World, there are no rules, it just makes no sense.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Did you ever get a religious accommodation request granted? Because for me personally they rejected it, they rejected it twice, and going to appeal it again, and then the mandate went away, and so they're like you don't need it now. It's but I still want it, because this is going to come back again.

John Frankman: So yeah, the mandate, it it just went away. So I sat there for a year and three months. It never got answered. We actually had a two star general come to seventh group and he had a talent hall meeting and. He was just fishing for questions. So I joked with my buddies, Oh, maybe I should ask him, about about the shot, things like that.

John Frankman: And he was just you got to that kind of lull where it's like, all right he's looking for some [00:26:00] questions. Do I have some fun? He's like any gripes, complaints. And I'm like, all right that's a sign from God. Raise my hand. Hey, sir. Captain Frankman AS three over three, seven, two weeks ago, the CDC changed its guidance with regards to people who are vaccinated, not vaccinated.

John Frankman: And they said that there is now no distinction. There's about 31 of us here at 7 Special Forces Group who are not vaccinated and we cannot go TDY, we can't deploy, we can't PCS, so that said is there any kind of conversation about rescinding the vaccine mandate or doing away with that and when are we going to hear back from our religious exemptions?

John Frankman: And, yeah, I told him it had been over a year and he just shouted out have you heard of Novavax? And I said, yeah, he uses aborted fetal cells. I think he was shocked to know I knew that, or, I don't know, he's man, my talking point didn't work. They briefed all of us generals, it works every time.

John Frankman: I don't know, it's just it, yeah, it's tricky.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. And my concern with Novavax, because they offered that to me also, and I said, but it says it has cholesterol in it, and it doesn't [00:27:00] describe it anymore, and my concern is these cholesterol, which is the lipid nanoparticles, which I believe is a bioweapon.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And it, they wanted, they told me to get it when it had been less than a month after me having heart surgery and I was still on anticoagulants.

John Frankman: Yeah it's insane. And people are just in such denial about this being the cause of their side effects. I remember running into a major at a bar and he, he's a little sloshed whatever and just like hearing his wife having such bad reactions just like shingles right after and that's the first dose and you go back for the second dose and it just doesn't make sense and just Oh, doctor said it wasn't related at all.

John Frankman: It's like really 24 hours, 48 hours later. I think people are forgetting how science works, like cause and effect and looking. I studied chemical physics undergrad, and I just remember being in analytical chemistry and trying to find... What is that agent that's causing everything and when you have just this Totally new set of data with just some totally new thing that's being [00:28:00] thrown in there's it's impossible to not look for some kind of correlation, but Yeah, people are blinded right now

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: When using that, that, causation isn't correlation BS that's going around, there's still if we don't know anything about it, and there's any safety signal, the prudent and wise thing would be to immediately stop administering something that seems to be associated with Terrible disastrous outcomes to the way we defend our country.

John Frankman: Yeah.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I'm just, what do I know?

John Frankman: Yeah.

John Frankman: Yeah. It's pretty wild. The decisions that were made, not made and just everybody more or less going along with it. So yeah, it just makes me grateful to, for whatever reason, just being able to think critically through it, having the fortitude to follow my convictions and That's where in my article, I try to say, what do we do from this?

John Frankman: Where do we go from here? We can say always do the right thing, no matter what, but that's just cliche. I think there needs to be just a [00:29:00] reassessment of our principles and values, and I firmly believe you get the leaders you deserve. If we had a super morally straight service class, like captain below major blow, whatever, we wouldn't just blindly follow whatever orders that were given.

John Frankman: There would be some kind of critical thought. There would be an adherence to principle over expediency. And right now, I think that a lot of the factors are just political expediency, career expediency not wanting to be apolitical yeah it's it's tough. We got a battle, but it's exciting.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. And I think one thing that's important is, when you come to the table and you're Christian, whether you're Protestant or Catholic or whatever you identify as Christian, that is a part of you. And you can't separate that from how you think because it is a part of you. It's the lens in which you view the world.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And so when something goes against that, you have to stand against it.

John Frankman: Yeah, absolutely. What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and [00:30:00] loses his soul? And we're not called to be successful. We're called to be faithful. And I think that the greatest success story that we have in this world is Jesus Christ who suffered, died, was buried, and by all human means that does not seem successful, but God brought the, our salvation out of that and just his complete glorification.

John Frankman: Yeah, we need to suffer with him to the best extent we can.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: This is, this is an argument that I would, I'd be curious if you had not heard this before. I'm sure you have. Because you were applying for a religious accommodation request, and you're Catholic, and I believe the Pope said that to get the shot is an act of love, which I completely disagree with, and most Catholics that I've talked to also disagree with this particular Pope about many issues.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So how did you square that? What argument did you use?

John Frankman: And I, I included that in my religious exemption and the Catholic faith, what's, man, there's so many ways to go, but I guess [00:31:00] I would start by saying that there's different levels of ascent that's given to different teachings. So we know that the scripture is God's infallible word and there are traditions that just have to be held no matter what.

John Frankman: And that's the creed, different councils, de fide statements. So there are things that you have to hold de fide, there's things you hold de tenenda, so on and so forth. And the Pope, when he says something on a plane or in an interview, or he just writes something in an encyclical that's not, there's different levels of assent that you give to it, but it's like a faithful obedience.

John Frankman: And another thing I pointed out to other people is that, is Pope Francis batting a thousand? Not exactly. He's said some questionable things, and at this point, I think it's okay for a Catholic to be a little skeptical, hold to the teachings that has been handed on. If anyone teaches a different gospel.

John Frankman: You have to reject it. So I think with a few things, he's been off a little bit, but what that came down to was a congregation of the doctrine of faith, now dicastery for the doctrine of [00:32:00] faith statement that said that it's morally acceptable to get the shot because of the danger of COVID and because there's no other means available, but if a person wants to abstain, then they should be allowed to follow their conscience.

John Frankman: I just disagree with all of those premises. I think that except for the conscious thing, but COVID wasn't that dangerous. For those of us who had antibodies, I know some people who died from it. People got very sick from it, but for our young, healthy population it was not that dangerous.

John Frankman: And then I think that there were alternative cures out there that were hidden from us. Unfortunately, in order to get you a vaccines approved. Which is just extremely malicious on a whole nother level. There were also Cardinals, Bishops who had disagreed with the Pope and who had expressed their support for individuals who were not going to get the shot.

John Frankman: I followed my conscience. I followed other religious leaders who I respect. And that doesn't mean that you can just go on ahead and disagree with things the Church teaches. You have to hold to those day to day teachings. And I'm a [00:33:00] faithful Catholic. Love Pope Francis. Encourage everyone to pray for him.

John Frankman: But, I think on that point. He was misinformed.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah and I agree with you, and I'm not trying to, the space of light between you and the Catholic Church, but I think it's important that you stick to those traditions, because in, in Catholicism, tradition is, from my understanding, is quite important.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I think it's good that we call, we pray for our leaders, even those that we may not agree with, because that's how we can change hearts. If not their heart, we change our own heart in how we look at them, and how we interact with them.

John Frankman: Yeah, I think we need to do that, especially there are a lot of leaders and a lot of people who are listening to this or who didn't get the shot and they experienced extreme persecution, like beyond what I've experienced, you've experienced but to pray for them to Try to understand where they're coming from to see their fallenness, their sinfulness, understanding if you didn't have the grace you got that maybe you would have fallen even further.

John Frankman: And I can, not every, my [00:34:00] leaders, they didn't all go to seminary for four years. They don't all have the same relationship with Jesus Christ that I have. I encourage them to enter into that kind of relationship to seek Him who is truth. But to really pray for them, try to understand, but still to work for justice so that something like this doesn't happen again.

John Frankman: We already had Nuremberg, and I heard this called Nuremberg 2. 0, and I do believe that there are way too many similarities.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And, and we always have to remember that our fight is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers and principalities of darkness. And so the guy who. who's trying to destroy me.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: There's something in him that I'm fighting against, but I'm, I should love him, which is hard to do. I'm going to tell you it is hard to do. To love these people as, it's easier to love my neighbor who is confused, but it's harder to love, let's say, the commander who suspended me. But to pray for them is what's good for their soul, and hopefully through this terrible disaster of all of humanity, we'll have more souls in heaven with us than if this didn't happen.

John Frankman: Yeah, and, how was Christianity [00:35:00] spread versus Islam spread? And actually, it's funny, I had to actually answer that to the, to the colonel I talked to, because as I was asking him these questions, he got into gaslight mode and accused me of extremist mode to where it's you're in a dark space, because I asked him.

John Frankman: He's like, why are you leaving? And I just went through everything. I told you about my team and what happened to me and asked, what would you do if you were in my situation? It was like, okay, sure. And then I asked, do you think it was legal? Do you understand it requires an FDA approved shot? He said, Oh I'm not a doctor.

John Frankman: It's your doctors are yes, men. I think I might've said that way. I probably should have said it different. Have you looked in that people have been injured and people have been injured. Have you heard of Nuremberg? At this point, he's you're in a dark spot, too much. And I said my conscience is clear.

John Frankman: I feel good. And then going into too much extremism is bad. Have you heard of the crusades? And I'm like, yeah, I think that's, I thought that was a little bit off topic, but I tried to give a brief explanation that that's Islam spread through the sword Christianity. It's spread through the blood of martyrs through people who [00:36:00] martyr is a witness, but they're willing to die for their faith.

John Frankman: Yeah, I was asked a number of other questions, which was pretty fun, but anyway.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wait and what's interesting with the Crusades is, I think people forget, the reason the Crusades, and I'm not saying they're right, I'm not saying the Crusades were a good thing because more death and destruction and chaos and, that is not a good thing, but they were a response to be, kicking Christians and Jews out and murdering them.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's they felt justified in doing it. It doesn't mean it was right, but it wasn't unprovoked, let's put it that way. Chris

John Frankman: Yeah, I'll have to do a little bit more historical research, but I think some of them were fine just fine. Didn't need to sack the Eastern Church and cause that kind of schism or problems.

John Frankman: But yeah, I think we forget that, gosh, there's so many battles where Christianity could have been lost. Charlemagne, Our Lady of the Rosary. Just, yeah, I should just be a better historian right now to better explain it, but just, Spain was almost all moreish. I know. That's what Europe looks like now with

John Frankman: A lot of the, it's going back, going on. Yeah, it's going back. It's, I saw a great meme. It's do you know how you see, say cheeseburger in [00:37:00] France and it has Arabic and, yeah. I don't know, but

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: but we digress, right? As they say we digress. Yeah. No, I think that, yeah. That's, those are good arguments and I want to really the main reason for saying that is that you can disagree with your, your, let's say your corporate religious affiliation, like the Catholics, or the Lutherans, or the Protestants, or whatever, and still have your own personally held beliefs, which need to be respected, even if you're an atheist, You can get a religious accommodation because they're your deeply held beliefs.

John Frankman: I would say as a Catholic I can't go on ahead and get a religious exemption to say, I want my girlfriend to get an abortion, even if that's a deeply held... Oh that's, yeah, that's completely outrageous. That's but I think Yeah. Yeah, and it's tough, man, and that's what's tough about the situation that the church, the Catholic church is in right now with a lot of kind of malformation, things like that, but When it says follow your conscience, we mean [00:38:00] inform your conscience and follow it, that you have a job and a responsibility.

John Frankman: Jesus Christ, like the we are like God in his image insofar as we have an intellect and a will, and we were made to know him, and then our will is made to serve him and to follow him. So it's on our, it's our responsibility to inform our intellect. That means to inform it of what's right and wrong. So I wouldn't just say you can necessarily just disagree with corporate things.

John Frankman: I think that just, yeah, I hate how nuanced it has to be, but right now if what the Pope is saying contradicts a former council, so let's say people are saying, Oh Vatican too says this. So everything in Trent is wrong. Everything in Nicaea, everything in Ephesus, it's like we're Catholics and we follow every council and anywhere that councils disagree with each other, you're interpreting one of them wrong.

John Frankman: I know that's maybe a little off topic, but I definitely enjoy chatting about these kind of things.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: No, I think you're absolutely right. And, I've been studying the Old Testament more, and it seems like there's times where there's almost a different God, but in reality it's a misunderstanding of what's going on because, like, why would this [00:39:00] happen?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Why would that happen? But it's really, once you get into deeper meaning of it and get into the original text and the meaning of those words that were used, then it's oh, okay. And something as simple That I learned, it always confused me, when, was it Ham looked upon his father's nakedness.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: This is an interesting thing, it's, he didn't just look at his drunk father laying there. What that means, looking upon your father's nakedness, is means having sex with your dad's wife. So he raped his mother, that's what that means, in the ancient Hebrew text.

John Frankman: Yeah, another level, yeah.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And so usually, the misunderstanding in English is because we don't understand the original text.

John Frankman: Yeah, a lot of original texts, a lot of yeah, just people not having enough time to just study for themselves, and that's, one reason I'll push for Catholicism all day long. You can have 10, 000, 30, 000 plus churches with the same Bible interpreting it differently, but I think that's where you need the authority.

John Frankman: And just scholars to help you work out the theology. But I think you're totally right that there are a lot of things that people on the surface, let's just say a lot of [00:40:00] maybe modern people who they just want to point to the text that judge not lest you be judged and leave it at that. You can't just select that piece of the scripture.

John Frankman: You need to live the whole thing. You need to read the whole thing. And that applies to this COVID shot, too, that you can't just be a Catholic on Sunday or Protestant on Sunday. You have to follow out these convictions these, your faith everywhere. And that includes in the decision to get a shot that is linked to abortion, the murder and the theft of an aborted baby.

John Frankman: Body parts, fetus, like the baby itself for disease, you have a 99. 99% chance of surviving. And that is what I answered that colonel. He asked, what would you say to a Christian who got it? I said I would ask if they can justify that kind of action. And if they were Catholic, they should consider going to confession to a good priest, because I do think that.

John Frankman: The gravity of the matter that I think it is a sin and I know there's different levels of culpability, so perhaps not knowing it wasn't a [00:41:00] sin, but I think with proper knowledge, it's, it is a, it's a problem.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And, following that up, because there are plenty of people that listen to this and watch this that, that have got the shot because they didn't know when they thought they could trust, let's say their doctor or their neighbor or whoever there's forgiveness at the foot of the cross.

John Frankman: Yeah. Yeah. And if you also didn't know, if, let's say you're Catholic and all you did is hear Pope Francis so you can get it and you got it, there's no sin in that. You didn't the matter is bad. I guess we, we look at sin having multiple parts, having the object, having the intent, the circumstance, but not knowing it.

John Frankman: There's just a way different level of culpability there. And yeah, there's absolutely forgiveness for those people who got it. But what you need to do in all parts of your life is if you fall below the standard is repent and then you're raising yourself to that standard instead of, Justifying yourself living down to that standard.

John Frankman: So raising yourself to new heights in Christ.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Exactly. Repent. There's always forgiveness. And, don't continue living in sin on purpose just to get more grace, because we already said that does, that's not how [00:42:00] that works. Yeah. But and

John Frankman: I'll make sure that I humble myself too and say that this COVID shot thing, very blessed to have just gotten, talked to some great priests, been able to pray about it and just come to the conclusion that, hey, this isn't a thing I should do.

John Frankman: But you know what, even though this is a lot more confusing and I was able to figure that out. There are so many things that I know are sins and I continue to do them just regularly. So amen. I'm a sinner. I confess my name to this is not a judgment thing. This is just about trying to do what's right now, trying to reconcile what happened and move forward so that we can have a.

John Frankman: better life for ourself, like spiritually, eternally, but also just for this country.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And one thing I want to encourage the listeners is if you repent and you come to Jesus and you have that moment where you confess your sins forgive yourself too. Don't keep living in the past of the sin that's been forgiven.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Because it's not helpful for you now, and it's not helpful for those around you being concerned about those things when you've. Done all the things and you've changed your life and you're making those direction [00:43:00] changes forgive yourself

John Frankman: and move past it Yep, you're not greater than god if he forgave you then you need to forgive yourself.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Exactly. I like it so just something unique that you've seen

John Frankman: Yeah. So one of the biggest surprises that I had at seventh group was when I went to seventh group, we got assigned to our battalions and it was a haphazard way. It was like, okay, we're sending five captains to third battalion, and then we're just going to switch first battalion, second battalion, first battalion, second battalion.

John Frankman: But of all places, I ended up at third battalion and one of the. The surprises that I encountered there was my battalion was then deployed and the acting rear detachment battalion commander was a transgender major. So that I think was the, one of the first moral dilemmas that I just had never thought I would encounter in the military that I had to encounter.

John Frankman: Cause one I'm called to love this person, to respect him and it's a man who identifies as a woman and I'm not trying to seek martyrdom, and I think [00:44:00] that's something that hopefully those of us listening aren't trying to do, so I called legal assistance, I asked, hey, what am I legally required to call an individual who It's a man identifies as a woman or this person and got the legal assistance, got back to me in a week or two said, okay got back levels at the Pentagon.

John Frankman: And the yeah, I know. I'm like, Whoa, okay. I guess this you had to go up that high with legal assistance, huh? And he asked are you sure this person's your commander? I'm like, I'm not sure, but right now this individual, and I had to just be super like third person singular, weird pronouns.

John Frankman: This person is here. Cause I'm not trying to misgender with a lawyer too. I'm not sure, but right now this person is acting as the, yeah, the rear battalion commander. And she was like, alright can't misgender, you can do rank and last name, that individual is going to know what you're doing, you're going to know that person knows, yeah, you guys are both going to know what you're [00:45:00] doing, it may affect the perception, but you'll be legally okay.

John Frankman: I'm like, cool. It was, good morning major such and such, how are you majoring such and such, what can I do if you're majoring such and such. And, as far as I could tell, I was the only person doing that, and I don't know, I just, and it's to be charitable, because, if we believe, if we're Christians, we really, we shouldn't lie, and if someone suffers from a mental debilitation or a psychological disorder someone with schizophrenia, we're not going to encourage that behavior.

John Frankman: We're going to try to love the person. And I would encourage everyone to please, pray for this individual and pray for this individual's family as well. Like the person's kids, like it's a tough situation, but it was yeah, it was interesting. I ended up not going to, to his company, went to a different company.

John Frankman: I think that was one of the better personnel decisions that, but and it was completely cordial, respectful I think he did fine work, but it's, yeah, it's just crazy how that's how, and just with the shot [00:46:00] going on, it's okay, they can identify as someone of the opposite sex, but I can't just not get a shot, like what kind of accommodations are we making here?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I applaud you for making that distinction. Cause it's not the person that, that. That we dislike, that we love the person, it's just, it's, we also don't want to enter into their psychosis, really, I don't know how else to describe it.

John Frankman: Yeah, and I think that conservatives are very much losing the battle, the cultural battle, because to say that, okay, it can't be we'll allow gay marriage, but just, we don't want people to be transgender, or you can be a transgender when you're an adult.

John Frankman: I think that everyone has, a culture has the duty to try to legislate. What is morally expedient for the greater good of the culture and you're trying to create like this false legislation, positive legislation by legislating immorality and trying to create a farce of what people think is right and acceptable and it's not acceptable for two people of the [00:47:00] same sex to get married.

John Frankman: That, and that is a bad standard to show to children. It's not fair to children to grow up in those families. Anyway, I'm just getting myself cancelled here and there on my first podcast, but...

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: No, that's okay, you're getting me cancelled on my whatever podcast. No, these are good reasons to go against this, because I have to be careful any show that I show my kids.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Oh, look, that little child over there in this show that we're watching has two dads or two moms. It's so now we've had that conversation already. And these are homeschool kids. These aren't kids going to public school. They're getting exposed to everything. And we, we tell them, we're to love them and they're confused and we pray for them that they're become less confused.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And that's where we leave it at this age because they're still very young.

John Frankman: And obviously it's going to take some baby steps that legislatively, we're not just going to go back to 1950s tomorrow. If we went back in 2024, but it would just be nice if there were more kind of social conservatives who were actually socially conservative and tried to understand.

John Frankman: If people tried to [00:48:00] understand the value that those social issues, the family being the building block of society is such an important thing. And if you just don't have a strong family, you don't have strong children. You don't have strong citizens. I know I'm a single guy, here saying this, but firmly believe it and support it.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: No, but you're right. You're absolutely right. It's the family is the building block that makes up the society. And when the family is destroyed or when fathers are made to look like bumbling idiots on almost every TV show that we have, and then families don't respect the father, then there's legislation enacted back in the sixties that made fathers redundant.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And so now it's more. Financially beneficial to have single parent families and the research shows that if you have a single parent family and it's only the mom Versus only the dad the families that raise the children where it's only the dad are equal to two parent families. Whereas Households that have only the mom they don't finish high school.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: They don't you know, get out of high school without having a teen pregnancy [00:49:00] just all these issues,

John Frankman: right? Yeah. Yeah, there's a few research studies just like that on If the mom goes to church every Sunday versus if the dad goes to church every Sunday the family with the dad going is going to be 75% likely to go and I think the mom only is 25.

John Frankman: It's incredible.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, and it just, and this is a call to men out there to be men, to be leaders in your family or to be leaders in your community or to take that role of leadership that you've been given, whether you want it or not. It's an uncomfortable mantle to be a leader. When I spoke to Brad Miller before, he said the people who are the true leaders are the ones that are willing to give up that actual leadership in the military, the, where you're put into a position like that means that you're actually worth it if you're willing to give it up for a reason that was worth giving it up for.

John Frankman: Yeah, definitely an incredible example. And unfortunately, we don't have more leaders like that.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And, but you, sir, are one of those leaders. And I want to commend you for that.

John Frankman: Yeah, thanks so much. I am just trying to discern God's will, [00:50:00] follow it as I can. And I think that God knows what sinners we are right now.

John Frankman: Insofar as what incredible things have I done in the military? I didn't call a transgendered individual a man. And I also just didn't get a shot that I thought was going to be dangerous for me. And that is somehow an exceptional feat in society. So I think God's given us some softballs right now to try to...

John Frankman: Build up virtue and, but I do appreciate the kind words.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: John I know you, you started this long, hard road. I want to commend you for your your bravery, for your willingness to follow God, even when... It seems that in the ways of the world, what you're doing is not wise. It is.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: We find that the foolish will confound the wise, and I think this is one of those perfect examples of what the world considers foolish is actually quite wise. And I'll be praying for you, and I hope that many of the listeners and the viewers will be praying for you that you've Find the way that God wants you to take, whether that be seminary, or whether that be becoming a priest, or some other way of following.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I'm sure you will follow whatever path He has [00:51:00] put forth before you.

John Frankman: Thanks, Sam. Thanks so much for everything you're doing. I'll pray for you, pray for your family, and please continue to spread the good word.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you, and God bless.

John Frankman: God bless.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just a reminder for everyone out there, duty uniform of the day, the full armor of God, let's all make courage more contagious than fear.[00:52:00]