Nurse Kelly: Welcome
to after Hours with Dr.

SIgoloff, where He can share
ideas and thoughts with you.

He gets to the heart of the issue
so that you can find the truth.

The views and opinions expressed
are his and do not represent the US

Army, d o d, nor the US government.

Dr.

Sigoloff was either off duty
or on approved leave and Dr.

SIgoloff was not in uniform at the time.

Of recording now to Dr.

Sigoloff

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: okay.

All right.

Well, thank you for joining me again.

I wanna first thank my Patreon supporters.

We've got Shell at the $50 level.

We've got Sam and Angela Shucky that
just recently increased their, their

monthly commitment from $17 and 76 cents
a month up to $20 and 20 cents a month.

We've got Perry at the
$17 and 76 cents a month.

Kevin and Katie, Joe, pj,
Ty, uh, Rebecca, Amanda.

This bets nasty.

Thank you so much for all of your support.

I truly appreciate it.

And everybody who's been able to get
out and get one of these patches,

uh, I think one of someone just
bought 12 of of them just recently.

So thank you so much.

I truly appreciate that.

I think that's gonna be
some Christmas presents.

Uh, I do have more available.

I can only put up about 48 at a time,
uh, mainly for my shipping department and

my wife to be able to keep up with it.

Um, and then we can put some more up.

We've got a total of about 475
of 'em that I'm gonna be selling.

Um, and we're maybe.

Halfway through that, or a
little less than halfway through.

Thank you so much for all your support.

It's been, it's been a
wonderful outpouring of

blessings y'all have been given.

Today we have Chris Burge.

Chris Burge is, is a man who, who
definitely deserves to be in this

series of relieved commanders.

So he, he was the battalion
commander of the 1 3 90 fifth.

It's a brigade engineer
battalion at Fort Hood.

Thank you so much for joining us and, and
tell us what happened, what your story is.

Former LTC Chris Berge: Hey, Dr.

Siegel.

Uh, first of all, thanks for,
uh, having me on, uh, longtime

listener . First time caller.

It's, uh, great to be on here.

Um, yeah, hey, I, I thought I
would share, uh, with you my two

parts, my personal experience, uh,
you know, my, my own medical and

religious, uh, accommodation request.

The issues that I had with,
uh, Re receiving the shot.

And then also, um, my, what I would
call my professional experience,

the, the issues that I had, you
know, as a battalion commander,

uh, with forcing a shot on, on my
soldiers, um, you know, whose health

and welfare that I was charged with,
with entrusted ent, trusted with.

Um, . So my, my personal experience,
the, uh, the medical medical exemption

process, um, I, I got a couple medical
stuff, medical issues that, uh,

that I didn't, didn't exactly feel
comfortable with, uh, taking the shot

and, uh, made the medical, uh, request.

for the shot, and, uh, it was denied.

And, uh, there, there are some things
that I had heard from several doctors

who, uh, weren't, weren't the ones
that the media were, were always going

to, they were more the alternative
media type, uh, source folks.

Uh, they were saying some things about
the shot that, uh, kind of lined up

with, um, things that I had personally
and, uh, I wasn't willing to get them.

Get the shot.

And, um, the, the medical community with
the military was, um, eventually quick

to deny that request up at the, um,
you know, the Pentagon, Pentagon level.

Um, and so I, I made the,
um, made the second request

and that was denied as well.

Uh, so pretty.

Quick and dry with medical exemption.

Uh, my religious accommodation request,
there were several arguments that I

made with the religious accommodation,
um, you know, fetal cell line, which

is very important, but that's, uh, kind
of a boiler plate that everybody goes

to, which, uh, you know, if you, as
I, as I dug into some of the research

in the shot, um, I, I learned actually
a lot about some of the other things

that, uh, use fetal cell lines, which.

It's actually changed some of
the things that I, I use as well.

I'm, I'm going to use in
the future when I need it.

Um, but if, if people haven't
thought about that, uh, I think

it's important to think about.

And, um, so that's one.

Uh, and then the other, the other
one, uh, I've got two others.

Uh, transhumanism was really important.

I really think that, uh, transhumanism is.

, uh, an angle that, uh, people
who are pushing this kind of

technology, mRNA technology onto us.

Um, yeah, transhumanism
was important for me.

I think that, uh, you know, according
to like Psalm 1 39 we're fearfully

and wonderfully made by God.

And, um, and so the, I'll, I'll tell
you, when you look at, uh, Moderna's

website, um, Actually, I looked at
it last night and they changed it.

Uh, when you looked at it along, uh,
several months ago, it would say something

to an equivalent of like, Moderna
is, uh, like tweaking the operating

system of life or something like that.

And, um, and so, yeah.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah.

So I think you and I know what train,
what transhumanism is, but I don't want to

assume that every listener also knows it.

Can you describe what that means to
you or what the definition actually

Former LTC Chris Berge: is?

Yeah, yeah.

Since we're in this modern
age of, uh, discovering what

it means to me, , um, yeah.

Transhumanism is basically
like, uh, basically improving

hu humanity, the, the human.

And, um, you know, I don't, I don't
subscribe to, um, evolution and,

uh, you know, I'm not necessarily
judging people if they do, uh, If

you do the, a lot of these people,
they do subscribe to evolution and

they believe that they can improve hu
humans, uh, that they can become part

of the, uh, the, the default evolution
and, and improve humans in that way.

Um, . So I, I don't, and, um, you
know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I guess you

could say I'm an antit transhumanist.

Uh,

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I think one thing
that's important, I think one thing

that's important to add to this is
if you don't believe us or you don't

understand, please go look up Yuval Aldi.

Yuval Aldi is part of the World
Economic Forum, and the things he

says are absolutely terrifying.

I don't have any clips available of
him right now, but what he said is,

, we will hack the human brain soon.

He'll say things like, where you
won't have freedom of choice.

And then he talks about his investors
and how they're the most important.

And it, it's people like, you know,
these big tech companies, I'm not gonna

mention any names specifically, but these
big tech companies that had these cloud

systems, almost as if it's an artificial
super intelligence that wants to be able

to take over the thought content of your.

and connect you to computers.

And then we hear certain people
like Elon Musk who's working

this angle called Neurolink.

Well, the reason he's doing
Neurolink is so that humans

and computers can be connected.

He's got a different angle.

He wants humans and computers
to be connected so that when

computers become aware, they see
humans as, oh, they're part of us.

Let's not kill them all.

And, and that's not
being fantastic at all.

That's exactly what he.

. Yeah.

Must.

Exactly.

Former LTC Chris Berge: Uh, you know,
one of the crazy things is, uh, you

know, computer can only, uh, Dr.

Sigal, you remember, uh, you
remember the cassette tapes back

in the nineties and whatnot.

Uh, I, I don't know if you remember those.

I, I don't know how old you remember that.

Please call em Sam to Sam.

Sam, uh, you know how you
could take recordings of.

of the, uh, cassette tapes.

Well, you know, eventually if you
recorded a cassette tape off of each

other, eventually it would, it would
get, the quality would be so bad you

wouldn't understand what it says.

Uh, you know, kind of the same with,
uh, making photocopies, um, humans can't

improve upon, uh, themselves and, and the
way of like, uh, moral values, uh, it is.

Uh, we can only create something, uh, if
you can even create something as good.

Um, so where we're entering scary time,
where we, um, we think that we can

create something that has, um, greater
moral, um, ascendance than, than,

than we can then and we're becoming
kind of our own gods in that sense.

Uh, it's, it's gonna be very
dangerous in that sense.

Yeah.

So, . Yeah.

Transhumanism.

Uh, and the, the last argument that
I wanted to talk about, um, for why I

didn't want to take the shot is, uh,
the Imago Day, uh, you know, talks about

Genesis, the first chapter that, uh, God
created man in his, in his own image.

. And, um, this is really similar to
transhumanism, but it's just, you know,

very slight shade of great difference.

Um, you know, by, by me taking
something, uh, that would improve what

God created, I'm essentially saying
that God could have improved me.

And, uh, so, uh, God
didn't do things correctly.

And, um, so.

Uh, basically it's would be changing
the information at the cellular

level and, um, you know, I talked
about the operating system earlier.

Uh, you know, Microsoft has, um,
I believe has been in court cases

and Microsoft went and appreciated.

If I went in and changed their
operating system, I'd probably

have a lawsuit on my hands.

Um, you know, kind of the
similar argument with God.

God created me fearful.

I'm fearfully and wonderfully made.

Um, , you know, who am I to, uh,
go in and change his operating

system, change how he made things.

Um, so, um, yeah.

And then, you know, the other
thing is it's basically overriding

the purpose of, and the, the
design of the cell God's design.

And I'm not willing to do that.

So that was, that was my
personal, personal experience.

And, uh, you know, I got, And as we've
talked, I've got a couple things with

my professional experience as well.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: One thing I wanna
add to that real quick is some people

seem to think that for it to be
considered gene therapy, that it must

go into your cell and then into your
nucleus, and then change your dna.

N that is a completely false idea.

So the F D A.

Um, made a definition for
gene therapy back in 2018.

Um, and the definition means that
that's part of the definition.

Or it could mean you introduce
some genetic material, dna,

RNA that changes the function.

It alters the, the biological function
properties, the, it alters the

biological properties of that cell.

So if you put a gene into someone,
whether it be mRNA or dna, and it doesn't

go into their nucleus, and it just
goes into the CTools floating around

and it gets expressed well, you have
treated that person with gene therapy.

That is, by definition, the FDA
definition of gene therapy in 2018.

That is gene therapy.

But now we know that it, it can.

It can change the d n a of a human.

So I just wanna make those distinctions.

And even though we, we use that
term, it, it is the correct term.

It is absolutely the correct term.

Former LTC Chris Berge: Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

So, you know, about a year ago, uh,
and earlier in 21, Um, you know, I was

talking to medical professionals that
were in our unit and, and outside,

and I was like, Hey, you know, one
of the issues that I have with this

is, uh, here, here's this study.

There, there is a study, there was a
study back in 21 and 20 that talked

about how, um, the mRNA technology
could, uh, possibly, uh, you know,

basically like reverse transcript,
transcribe, uh, in the cells.

And I presented that study and
they were like, ah, no, that, that.

, that doesn't happen.

I studied this stuff and we're good.

And, um, you know, it's like, okay,
I got one medical professional

and another medical professional
one who's done research and, uh,

at least one who's done research.

And, um, I'm just, I'm not willing
to roll the dice like that.

And then lo and behold, like you said,
you know, you got studies coming out

where six hours later the, the liver
cells are, are actually ch, the DNA

and the liver cells are being changed.

Uh, so, you know, once again, uh,
theory proves fact with this stuff.

Um, yeah.

And you know, the other thing,
you, you were talking about the

definition of, uh, gene therapy and
it interesting how they had to change

the definition of a, of a vaccine.

Um, you know, from something that elicits
the immune response to, uh, you know, this

thing goes in and actually changes, like
I said, changes the function of the cell.

. Yeah.

Not in not improving my system.

Um, yeah, yeah.

Pro professional experience.

Uh, you know, I, I didn't have
any problems with, uh, my soldiers

getting the shot if they wanted.

Um, I'm, I gave every a ample opportunity
for them to, uh, at least know that if

they had a, any religious beliefs at all.

Um, cuz you know, you look at the
regs and you look at, uh, what's

said if, if you have any religious
belief, , uh, it doesn't even have

to be a recognized religious belief
system, then, uh, you should, you

should, um, be able to register, uh, as
for a religious accommodation request

with, with different things, you know,
the seeks, uh, want to wear their

head, uh, their headdress and whatnot.

Um, they, there's several who have gotten
religious accommodation requests for that.

Um, I remember over at Fort Hood,
there were several soldiers that I saw.

We're growing beards longer than mine,
uh, because they were, uh, uh, what is it?

Pagan.

And, you know, all I wanted to
do was just not get this shot

because I had religious, strongly
held religious views against this.

Um, but anyways, I, I gave my soldiers
ample opportunity for medical and

religious, um, accommodation requests.

And I didn't have any issues with, uh,
saying, Hey, this is a legal, uh, order.

Uh, until I started reading the
documentation and I started looking at the

Pfizer Bondek and the community fax sheet.

And if you read that pretty closely,
I haven't looked at it, um, you know,

since like, uh, August, September,
October timeframe last year.

But it, at, at least at that time, if
you looked at it closely, uh, there was

an asterisk at the, at the footnote.

And it said, Hey, uh, by the way, uh,
these two are similar in makeup space, but

um, you know, they're legally distinct.

And I'm not a lawyer.

Uh, I don't claim to be one, but,
um, when I read that, my reading

comprehension said, Hey, you know, this
seems like they are legally distinct.

And so I started talking to
different folks and they're like,

yeah, I don't know what that means.

Anyways, I, I had one, one NCO who,
um, didn't want to get the shot.

And, you know, everyone was
under the gun to be, everyone

was racing to be number one.

Uh, I wasn't necessarily racing to
be number one on to get everybody,

uh, get their shot, but, uh,
everybody was racing to, to.

Everybody complete, uh, so that
they can see that they're number one

and they're supporting everything.

And I have one NCO who was holding
out and uh, I was giving them

as, as much time as, as I could.

And, uh, I went to 'em and I said,
Hey, uh, Sergeant so-and-so, um, I, I

know you don't want to get the shot.

And, um, uh, you know, are you
sure that you don't have re any

religious beliefs against these?

Like, no sir.

You know, he is very
intellectually honest.

Uh, are you sure you don't
have any medical issues?

I'm like, no, sir.

I was like, okay, uh, well let
me, uh, I just wanna show you

what, what we want you to get.

And, uh, I ga gave him that fact
sheet and I showed him, uh, you

know, I was like, here it is.

And you see where it says
it's legally distinct.

He said, yes, sir.

And I was like, okay, well
you ready to go get your shot?

And he said, yes, sir, I am.

Uh, so I took him over to the, uh,
the Fort Hood, um, shop clinic area.

They had a whole.

before this, uh, port Hood's a pretty
big, pretty big post and, uh, there

don't too many people there because,
you know, it's coming near the end, uh,

where everybody had gotten their shot.

And, uh, Sergeant so-and-so went up in
line, filled out the paperwork, and, and

they said, okay, what are you here for?

And he said, uh, well,
I wanna get the shot.

I want Coer.

And they're like, oh yeah, hey, I'm sorry.

Um, we only have Pfizer Biotech and we
have the other ones, um, Moderna and.

Was, I can't remember
what the other one was.

Johnson Johnson.

And I said, yeah, that, that's
great, but, uh, I want community.

And he said, okay, I guess,
uh, you're, you're not gonna

be able to get the shot today.

He said, okay.

He said, but, uh, our nurse oic,
uh, will be here tomorrow morning.

And so we said, okay.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah.

When, when you were there, did you see
physicians, were there many physicians

around or was it mostly nursing staff?

Former LTC Chris Berge: Yeah.

None that were, I mean, none
that I could readily identify.

There were lots of nursing staff and

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: uh, yeah, because,
and I bring this up just because

yesterday I was looking through some.

It's, um, 15 six investigation stuff
against me and there is a clear and

present conspiracy, and I mean that
by the true definition of multiple

people, more than two people conspiring
or plotting against me, a doctor, the

medical director at the time, using, you
know, these nurses using their, their

guesstimation of what medical knowledge
is saying that I'm wrong with my medical.

and how those four nurses
came together and went to the

commander, who is also a nurse.

So it's, it's interesting, um,
that's why I asked that question.

Former LTC Chris Berge: Yeah.

Well, don't five nurses, uh, you
know, be the doctor or something.

I don't know.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: and, and it's,
this is not a dig against nurses.

My wife is a nurse.

I think nurses are amazing, but
everyone has to have their own place.

You know, like a nursing education
is not the same as a physician's

education and vice versa.

There's things that
nurses know that I don.

Sorry, I didn't mean
to distract you there.

Sorry.

Former LTC Chris Berge: Right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, exactly.

Yeah.

And there are things that you know that
nurses don't, but I will also tell you,

um, and I'm not saying this is the case.

I mean, you can go do research on your own
and you know, there are a lot of us who.

, you know, Sam, there are a lot of
us who are more informed than the

people that are pushing this stuff.

So, yeah,

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I wanna
wholeheartedly agree with you.

I have met more people that know
more about this than most doctors

on the face of the earth right now.

And I feel like the Army has encouraged
people like you and most people I've

interviewed to go basically go get
their self-directed PhD in law medicine

and in the pharmaceutical companies.

And I, and I wanna applaud
you and everyone for doing

the research that you've.

because now you've made yourself an
expert in this, this part of the, of life.

Former LTC Chris Berge: Yeah.

I wouldn't, wouldn't
call myself an expert.

I just, um, you know, little bit of, uh,
preserving my autonomy here, , like being

a human . And, you know, I, I, I joke,
uh, about that a little bit, but, uh, you

know, if, if folks have gotten the shot.

, you know, that was their own decision.

That should have been their own decision.

Um, you know, I, I don't, I don't
knock people for getting it if,

uh, they've gotten it, uh, wanna
respect people who, who've gotten it.

But, uh, for me, you
know, people shouldn't, it

shouldn't be pushed on people.

Um, because I, I do believe
that, uh, it's violating.

If they don't want it,
it's vi it's a violation.

So, um, yeah.

So, uh, I, we.

Sergeant so-and-so to, to
the clinic to go get a shot.

They didn't have it.

They said the nurse who I see
would be there in the morning.

Um, so, you know, I'm, I'm kind of
wanting to come to ahead with this.

So I show up in the morning with,
uh, my NCO and, uh, we go and talk to

the nurse o ic, uh, oh oh five types.

So, uh, Lieutenant Colonel,
we went and talked to her.

She, she met us, um, as we came in and.

Sergeant said, Hey, uh,
I, I'd like to get cer.

She said, well, unfortunately
we don't have that available.

And I, I hadn't said anything at the whole
time, uh, that, that we, we'd done this.

I've just kind of been in the background.

Um, you know, just nobody.

And, and at this time I'm like, Hey,
um, you know, my name's Colonel Burge.

I'm this battalion commander.

He's my last soldier who, you know,
either doesn't have a, an accommodation

request or hasn't gotten the shot.

And so I'm, I'm here and.

I'm just trying to help the process here.

Um, so I understand you guys don't
have community and, and this is the

one that, uh, the sergeant wants,
um, are, is it possible for you

to just put that in a memo format
saying that you don't have community?

And she looked at me kind of like.

, this is kind of an odd request
or you know, like, okay.

And, uh, but she, she obliged and said,
sure, I'll go ahead and go, go do that.

So she, she typed out a memo.

It was pretty short saying, Hey,
you know, we don't have, uh, Pfizer

Bondek, all we have is community.

I said, Hey, thank you so much.

Appreciate you doing this.

Uh, but um, I'm wondering, you
know, also putting that in there

that all you have are, uh, you know,
the e U a vaccines emergency use

authorization authorized vaccines.

And she again, you know, another
look like, geez, what are

you, what are you doing here?

Um, but she, she, uh, you
know, fulfilled my request.

She said, yeah, I, I, I can do that.

So she ran back in and
retyped it and said, you look.

Here's the memo.

Uh, you know, I, I don't have the,
uh, the, the header, the title paid

part of the, of the memo, but, um,
here it is, and, uh, please don't,

don't, uh, show this to anybody.

And I'm like, don't show this to anybody.

You know, why?

What's the purpose of even putting it on
paper if I'm not gonna show it to anybody?

Um, but, uh, obviously she
felt like there was something

wrong with what she was doing.

, but, uh, at, at least, you know, from what
she was said, what she was told to do,

um, and she's, she was like, yeah, but
they're all, they're all the same anyways.

And I was like, okay, I, I got it,
but you know, I'm a commander and

I need to do right by the soldiers.

So, uh, hey, thanks a lot.

Appreciate it.

And we left.

So, um, so I had the memo and, uh,
you know, I needed, needed to be

able to inform my chain of command.

So I, I went right over to my brigade Jag.

, I was like, Hey, captain, so-and-so,
lawyer type, um, you know, all this,

all these big legal words, I just
don't understand what they mean.

And uh, I took this memo to 'em
and I said, here's what's happened.

I don't know what everything means.

What do you make of it?

And this captain lawyer
type looks at the paperwork.

He's like, oh, wow.

Someone actually put this on paper.

I was like, yeah, I know.

It's crazy, isn't it?

Someone put this on paper.

What do you think?

Wow.

And, uh, wow.

He said us, sir.

I, I'm just, I don't know.

I'm gonna have to look at this,

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: so I bet his
face was melting off . Yeah.

Former LTC Chris Berge: Yeah, cuz you
know, you and I both know that the

ethical dilemma that's going through
this young captain's mind and, um,

you know, the, I just turned his good
day to a bad day and, um, so I, I

asked him how much, how much time does
he need to look at this paperwork?

and debate, ethical dilemma.

Um, so I showed up like two, two
days later and he is like, uh, sir,

I don't know what to make of it.

I was like, thanks, . So I, I took,
took the paperwork and um, I, I

went, went from his office, went
to go see my brigade commander.

I'm like, Hey, sir.

Um, , you, you already know
I got, you know, the personal

issues with, with this stuff.

So, um, here's this paperwork.

What do you think of this?

And I was like, Hey, look
sir, I, I, I have an issue.

Uh, I'm going to have an issue.

It wasn't even time to really enforce
the, the shot stuff with this.

Um, we, we still had several
months and I said, here, here's

Sergeant so-and-so's stuff.

Uh, I just wanna let you know
that, uh, here's the fact.

uh, from the cdc.

Um, I'm not making this stuff up.

It shows that it's legally distinct.

You know, there's, there's a
line between the two, and he

is like, ah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Uh, look, the, the lawyers have
already blessed off on this.

We're all good.

And I'm like, uh, I understand the
lawyers, sir, and again, I'm not a lawyer,

but it says that they're legally distinct.

Um, oh yeah.

You know what?

And I said, well, okay sir, I'm gonna
have issues with enforcing this.

When it comes time, he's
like, ah, you know what?

You are gonna have issues.

And I said, okay, I just need to, to
talk to a lawyer who can tell me what

the definition of legally distinct means.

What does this mean for the two shots?

Said, yeah, you better
go talk to a lawyer.

So I went, uh, I went to another lawyer,
anybody who could help me decipher

what legally distinct means and.

this lawyer over on post, uh, an
office that, uh, anybody can walk into.

I walked in, I said, Hey, here's
my peer, my paperwork with

these certain hi hieroglyphics.

And, uh, I said, what,
what does it all mean?

I'm so confused.

And again, they said,
wow, this is interesting.

Someone put this on paper.

And, uh, I know.

I was like, what?

What does it mean?

And they said, You have a strong case.

I was like, okay.

Got it.

Case for what, what does that mean?

Yeah, yeah.

For, for saying that these are legally
distinct and, uh, you have a strong

case, but in the end, uh, DODs gonna win
because they're, you know, the big dog.

And I was like, okay, I, I got, so

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: they, they
knew exactly what you had.

You had a, a golden ticket
that's gonna torch all of them.

They knew that.

And they're heming and Han going,
Ooh, yeah, this, uh, This doesn't

look nice because they were shocked.

That's someone actually
put it on the paper.

That's

Former LTC Chris Berge: that, uh,
there, there was something there.

There's a, there, there, yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Uh, there was something there.

Yeah.

So, um, but no one wanted to say,
Hey, you've got something here and

this is right and this is wrong.

And, uh, so yeah, that, that
was the beginning of the end.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Go ahead.

Do, do you still have that document?

And can you, uh, send a redacted copy?

Former LTC Chris Berge: Uh, yeah.

Oh, and I'll, yeah, I can

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: do that.

Post it here, if that's all right.

Yeah.

So we can see what we're,

Former LTC Chris Berge: yeah.

It it, what you're talking about,
it does look a little wonky because

it doesn't have, uh, the head, the
header, you know, the, the unit Sure.

And everything she said, I'm
sorry, I'm not the hospital.

I don't have my computer.

So here's.

, here's my memo.

So it looks like here's

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: a napkin with me
writing on here that I'm . Yeah, exactly.

Former LTC Chris Berge: Yeah.

Looks like a kindergarten would
put it, but, uh, , um, you know,

anyways, direct commissaries, um,

.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Hey.

No, you're right.

You're absolutely right.

You are a hundred percent right.

. I re Yeah, I resemble that remark.

That's something I would do.

.
Former LTC Chris Berge: Yeah.

Yeah.

Back when we used to wear
berets, they'd wear bere.

You're like, oh.

Yeah.

Pierre.

Yeah.

. Yeah.

Anyways, enough making fun
of direct commissioners.

Um, yeah, so, uh, that, that was the,
that was the beginning of the end.

Uh, the, the, the next day, uh, pretty
close to closed business, got a text

saying, Hey, come on over to my office.

And, um, went over to my brigade,
commander's office and I was

suspended, uh, never to talk to my
soldiers again, uh, except after.

Finally cut and, uh, I was, the next
week I was removed from command and, uh,

and then I, you know, went left enough.

The service after that.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Did they relieve you?

Did they relieve you for not getting the
shot or for not forcing this sergeant

to get the shot or did they distinguish,
did they actually say, yeah, for me,

Former LTC Chris Berge: Yeah.

So for me it was, uh, not going along
with the program with, um, basically

forcing, uh, uh, I can't remember
the exact verbiage in my gomar.

Uh, it was basically unwilling
to support the chain of command.

Um, yeah, basically unwilling
to support the chain of command

with their illegal orders.

Right?

So, you know, again, I'm not
a lawyer, but no one could

tell me what legally distinct.

So it's very difficult
terminology to figure out.

Um, so

yeah.

Yeah.

Um, yeah, you, you know, um, the,
the whole process has been, uh,

there's been a lot of soul searching,
uh, through the whole thing.

Um, you know, I know anybody.

going through this, uh,
like, like yourself.

I know, you know what I mean by this?

Uh, I've grown a lot through
the whole op opportunity.

Um, and it, it really boils down to
what do you find your identity in?

Um, and you know, I, I find my
identity in, in Jesus Christ.

And, um, you know, my, my priorities
have, have always been, uh, ever since I

was a young lieutenant, I've always been,
uh, God, family and then work or career.

And, uh, you know, career was getting in
the way of, uh, family in this case and

career was getting in the way of, um, my,
my relationship with God, uh, foremost.

So I, I wasn't willing to
cross the line in that.

And so this was really a,
um, an issue with identity.

And, you know, I think.

, uh, I, I know not everybody.

I don't want to, I don't want to
paint with too broad of a brush, but,

uh, many people, uh, in the military
find their identity in, uh, rank.

Many people find their
identity in position.

And, uh, so I was not willing to,
um, you, you know, um, go against,

against where I found my identity.

. And at the end of the day, you know,
as, as a, as a tax paying citizen,

I have to, uh, ask myself, you know,
is, is the taxpayer really getting

their value with this vaccine?

Um, you know, especially as more
and more information rolls out,

uh, we learned that, uh, you
know, the vaccine was ineffective.

We learned that, uh, and more and more.

So every day undeniably
we're learning that.

The vaccine is wrecking
havoc on, on people's bodies.

Um, you know, as, as, as more
and more data comes out on that.

So, if, if I were to ask a question
though of, of leadership of, uh,

higher ups, I'd, I'd ask them,
uh, you know, the hypothetical

question of, uh, the flu vaccine.

Um, hey, so at what percentage
do we stop pounding our

soldiers to get the flu vaccine?

and you know, as, as a commander and
you know, as a soldier under plenty

of commands, I think, you know, it
was around 85% around that area.

You know, if, if every unit had 85%, then
you know, supposedly we were protected

from the flu, even though everyone still
got the flu pretty much every year.

Um, so where, where are we in
comparison with the flu vaccine?

, um, you know, they are hounding, they're,
they're throwing people out for, you

know, being the 0.0 1.1 in a, in a
unit that doesn't have the vaccine.

Um, we're way over 85%.

And, you know, make, make no
mistake, the federal government has.

Put millions of dollars, put an
astronomical amount of money into

every single private that's come into
the military, let alone every officer

that comes in as a second lieutenant
or an oh three as a, as a direct

commission, e uh, put tons of money,
millions of dollars into, into us.

And they're just throwing it away just
because they don't, they don't, especially

now they're still continue to do it.

Um, if you don't get this, this
shot that's outdated because, It's

you, it's off of the alpha or the
whatever form, form of the, uh, covid.

It's, it's

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: nuts.

What's interesting about that
is I haven't had the flu shot in

two years now and nobody cares.

There is no fight there.

Yeah.

But you don't get this one shot.

That's not effective.

It's not safe.

It's not for the current
strain that's going around.

It's under e u a, which makes it
illegal under 10 US 10 U USC 1107

Alpha, which was ruled upon by, um, was
it, uh, judge Sullivan in about 2004

or five in the Dovers Rumsfeld case.

And I've been able to sit
with Doe and I've been able

to talk to Delran quite a bit.

And, and so like for you and for me,
sir, they're, they're breaking the, On

law that's already been judged upon.

It's not like this is precedence
for you and me, for everybody

who was in at that time that law,
that order was for you and for me.

And they're breaking that law.

Former LTC Chris Berge: Yeah.

Yeah.

It's, um, it's crazy.

It's crazy.

And, you know, one of the, the best thing
that we can do as, um, best thing that

we can do is just become informed and,
you know, listen to podcasts like this,

like your podcast, uh, , you know, don't,
don't take everything that, uh, that's

being said on a podcast for for sure.

You know, for, for truth, you know, look
it up yourself and, and become informed.

You know, I, you know, the last thing
that I'll, that I'll say, Sam, is,

um, you know, I don't need everybody
to be convicted on this, you know,

with what I'm, I'm convicted on.

But if, if you are convicted, then
you know there's gonna come a time.

you know, just like my CG at the
time when he called me to tell me,

uh, hey, I'm not gonna support your
religious accommodation request.

And I really, really respected
him for giving me a call.

He didn't have to tell me anything,
but, uh, you know, one of his battan

commanders, um, it was a phone call
and I said, Hey sir, you know, I

really appreciate you calling me.

I really do that.

That's very kind of you.

You didn't have to do that.

Um, but I just want you to know
that, uh, you know, at some point

in time they'll cross your line as.

, um, you know, we, we all should
have lines, and if we don't,

then, then we're just, uh, you
know, we're, we're welcome Matt.

Um, at some point in time, they're gonna,
they're gonna cross everyone's line.

And if you're not convicted now, just
remember when you do become convicted,

you need to know where your line
is and when it's crossed, you need

to stand up and, uh, and not back.

And, uh, you know, count the consequences,
but regardless of the consequences,

um, you know, our nation was built on
convictions and, um, you know, my, my

Christian faith, you know, convicts me.

It admonished me, admonishes
me to, to take a stand.

So here I am.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Tell us about the
situation, about you getting out,

because there was some controversy
and some things that I would say

are not right, and hopefully you
can be restored in this situ.

.
Former LTC Chris Berge: Yeah.

Yeah.

So, um, because I had received bad
paper, I'd gotten the, the gomar,

the general officer memorandum
of, uh, administrative reprisal.

I think that's what it
stands for, the gomar.

Um, my, my file, my retirement file
automatically goes to what's called

a Grade Determination review board,
uh, gd, r b and um, the GD r b is

a, uh, it's a board made up of.

A number of officers that are, uh, senior
to you, and they look at your file and

from your file, they determine whether
you served honorably, uh, at the greater

rank that you're requesting to retire at.

Excuse me.

So, um, my file went before the G G D R B.

And, uh, that those, either those
officers there, there's the board, and

then there's also a, uh, I believe a
political officer that, uh, like an ses

or a senior executive service member,
uh, who is politically appointed, uh,

they, uh, sign off on the final one.

Uh, I have yet to do a foia, uh, which,
you know, now that I mention this, I

hope they don't burn all the documents
of my, my board files and stuff,

Um, but, uh, Either the officers or
the political appointee, uh, said that,

uh, I needed to be reduced in rank.

So, uh, you know, I used to hold
the rank of lieutenant Colonel and

then, uh, upon retirement, uh, I,
they were, I've demoted to major.

Um, so

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: that's shocking.

Hang on just a second.

Yeah, that is, I want everybody
to, how many years did you serve?

Uh, 20 years And some change.

And how did you enter the service?

Through enlisted or direct commission.

Former LTC Chris Berge:
I went to service as a

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: second lieutenant and
you gave 20 years of service and you made

the grade and rank of lieutenant Colonel.

And as you went to leave and
retire, they said, that's not good.

We're gonna bust you down to major
because that's the last time you

serve what we say, quote honorably.

I want everyone to hear
that and think about.

They have promised him over his
entire life that you will get your

high three, the, the average of
the highest three years of payment.

You'll get a percentage of that.

You'll get all of these, these benefits,
you'll get to be, call yourself

retired, whatever your last rank was,
and they took that away because he

didn't wanna get the shot, he didn't
wanna force others to get the shot.

He, they took that away from.

It's

Former LTC Chris Berge: terrible.

Yeah.

And you know, Sam, it's
a, it's a, it's travesty.

Um, and it's not something that
I, I think about every day.

Uh, not anymore, but, uh,
thankfully I don't, like I said,

I don't find my identity in it.

And, uh, it is a wrongdoing.

It should be corrected.

And, uh, hopefully it will be,
uh, you know, the crazy thing.

Uh, another, another crazy thing, , a
lot of craziness going on here.

Um, I, in my packet, my brigade commander
that actually, um, requested that I'd be

relieved and my, uh, the chief of staff
that I worked under after I was relieved

until I retired, uh, they actually gave
me memos that said that I served honor.

Um, a as a lieutenant colonel, I served
honorably through battalion command, uh,

through my time of battalion command.

And, um, and, and that, uh, you
know, I, I, the, the A actually

looking at the regs, it shows what
the G D R B is supposed to look

for, you know, dereliction of duty,
um, you know, any ethical or more

ethical issues or anything like that.

And they wrote in their memos, you
know, Hey, none of these issues.

And somehow this board or this political
officer was able to see through my

one piece of paper that said, you
know, showed that somehow I, I served

dishonorably even though you had 2 0
6 s that said that I served honorably,

one of them being my brigade commander.

Um, so somehow they had enough evidence.

Everyone that said that looked at that
was like, ah, don't worry about it.

Your, your packet that goes before
the grade determination review board.

There, there normally has to be,
uh, an investigation or something

like that before they reduce you.

And there was no investigation done.

All it was, was this
single piece of paper.

And, uh, I, I believe, I believe there
have literally been people who have.

Gone to court for kidnapping and
have not been reduced in rank yet.

Uh, you just want to uphold
the autonomy of your soldiers.

And, uh, you know, hey, we, we all,
when we sign the line, we all give up

some, uh, some rights, uh, some certain
rights, uh, with joining service.

But, uh, our bodily
autonomy is not one of them.

And, uh, we should not
have to give that up.

I think that's a great point.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: We do
potentially lose some.

Some free speech.

If it's in the realm of political
speech, we might not be able to, to

say everything that we want to say,
but we certainly do not lose our

human rights because those are a gift
from God, not a gift from government.

That's why the Constitution and
the Bill of Rights is so important

is because we do not have a
government that gives us rights.

We have a government
that protects our rights.

Former LTC Chris Berge: Exactly.

Exactly.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I wanna, I want to thank
you so much for, for taking the stand

for, I think it's really important what
you said is, and, and this idea that your

identity doesn't come from your position
in life in this world, because we're not

of this world, and if our identity comes
from God, then that gives us the power to

give up everything in this world and to

Former LTC Chris Berge: follow.

Yeah, absolutely.

You know, if, uh, if you're out there
and you don't know, your identity

seems like there's a lot of, uh,
confusion with identity nowadays.

It, it's, uh, something
you should figure out.

Um, cuz we're gonna be, we're
gonna be pushed from a lot of

different angles in the future.

.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And one thing that
I've been hearing a lot of lately from

different avenues is when you hear the
Holy Spirit speaking to you, you get up

and you move and you do what he says.

And, and the reason is if you don't,
if you delay, if you so, If, if you

delay and you don't do what he says,
you could find yourself in a very bad

position on this, this earth, like, like
maybe even a potentially immediately

imminently dangerous position.

And so to be able to listen to the
Holy Spirit and to do that, then

you first must be close enough
to God to be able to, to listen.

And I encourage everyone at this
absolutely is the time to, to make sure

that you're where you're supposed to
be to, to listen and to listen to that.

Former LTC Chris Berge: Absolutely.

Yeah.

Um, y you know, if, uh, if you don't,
if you don't know what the Holy

Spirit's voice sounds like, um, you
know, it's like hearing a new voice.

Um, yeah.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And it's not, it's not
always a, and it, that, that Holy Spirit

voice is not always like Sam, you know.

, don't take the shot.

It's not always like that either.

It's, it's this feeling
that you get inside.

It's, it's this, and, and, and you.

You measure that, right?

You, you go, okay, does this align
with what God says in the Bible?

Does this align with what other
believers that I know that does all,

do all these things align, right?

Because usually it's, . It's something
that goes along with what's in the Bible.

It's usually something that
you don't want to do often.

God wants us to do things
that we don't wanna do.

Think of Jonah.

He did not wanna go to Ninevah.

That was an uncomfortable
place for him to go.

He didn't want to do it.

But why does God call us to
do things we don't want to do?

It's so that we grow, right?

If I never go to the gym and I never pick
up a bar, that's the shirt is ar and bars.

If I never pick up a bar and
I do, I never do something.

Can't do or haven't done, or is
uncomfortable to do, then I never grow.

My muscles and my body don't change.

My neurochemistry and my brain
doesn't change when God ha

this whole earth is a gem.

In a sense that God puts us here so
that we can become the full potential

that he's designed us to be, so that
we can reach his other children.

We can bring them and encourage them and
help them make courage more contagious.

Former LTC Chris Berge: Exactly.

Yeah, we, we survive every day.

We live every day, uh, you know, through
God's grace and, uh, and having faith.

And, uh, God gives us faith
through his grace every day.

That's, that's the bread of, of,
that's the bread that we get every day.

And, uh, you know, living,
living through that faith.

You know, I told you I wouldn't have,
I've, I may have told you I, I wouldn't

have changed things, uh, that, that
have happened, um, would've changed.

Maybe one thing I didn't, I didn't
appreciate being demoted, but you

know, that's, It's a good gut check.

It's like, Hey, you know what?

That's not what my identity's in.

And um, so, um, I I, I've grown, I've
grown a lot, and I'll tell you, uh,

several of my friends who, um, we've
one in particular who we're, we're

both common friends with, um, we,
we walk through this together, uh,

calling each other very, very often.

Some really late, late night calls and.

Uh, we, we have grown a lot, um,
through this and, uh, as iron,

iron sharpens iron and, uh, really,
really appreciate his friendship.

Yeah.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And, uh, you
know, I mean there's, there's a

reason why we say a cord of three
strains is not easily broken.

And when a brother falls down,
a brother can help him up.

It's cuz we need God made.

To be with others, you know?

Yeah.

Certainly there's some amen.

Some introverts, some
extroverts, whatever.

But, but deep down, we, we need to have
that fellowship with other believers so

that we can help each other be strong and

Former LTC Chris Berge: courageous.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Did you get your pet?

I did, man.

I really like it.

All

Former LTC Chris Berge: right.

How, uh, can I order a couple more on.

Sure.

You got, you got like a website?

I

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: do.

Um, I'll put the link.

Cool.

Uh, down below if I can remember.

Um, I usually put it
up in multiple places.

Okay.

In my telegram, my, um,
Instagram, all those grams.

Um, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Former LTC Chris Berge: That's

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: awesome sir.

Thank you so much for joining me.

Thank you so much for
sharing your story and.

Thank you for being a leader, a
true leader, not just one that's

been appointed for leadership.

Um, and thank you for, for following
God and for choosing to be refined

rather than just going along.

Hmm.

Former LTC Chris Berge: Yeah.

I appreciate it, Sam.

Hey, thanks.

Uh, thanks for the opportunity.

Uh, like I said earlier, I really
appreciate what you're doing

with, uh, with your podcast
and, uh, appreciate this.

Thank you, sir,

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: and we
will be praying for you.

Former LTC Chris Berge: Thank you.

Likewise.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just a reminder for
everyone out there due to uniform of the

day, the full armor of God, let's all
make courage more contagious than fear.