74. Dr. Peter Breggin
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Nurse Kelly: [00:00:00] Welcome to after Hours with Dr. Sigoloff, where he can share ideas and thoughts with you. He gets to the heart of the issue so that you can find the truth. The views and opinions expressed are his and do not represent the US Army, d o d, nor the US government. Dr. Sigoloff was either off duty or on approved leave and Dr. Sigoloff was not in uniform at the time. Of recording now to Dr. Sigoloff.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: All right. Well, thank you for joining me again. I have a wonderful guest that I'm very excited to tell you about. But before we get that started, I wanna say thank you to all my Patreon supporters. Y'all have been very helpful in encouraging me both monetarily and just spiritually.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just giving me encouragement. I want to thank Shell Pace. At $50, we have Sam and Angela shek. At the $20 and 20 cents level, we have the Pandemic Reprimand, which is $17 and 76 cents a month with Linda Perry Ty, the Self-Made $10 level. With Katie and Kevin, we have the $5 tier refined, [00:01:00] not burned, with Emmy, Joe Patton, Bev, pj, Rebecca Darrell.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: We have the courageous, contagious level at $1 a month with Amanda, Jay, and SPTs. Nasty. Thank you so much for, for being willing to commit money when time is so tough and money is so hard right now. I wanna thank you very much for that. Now for my guest. This is a true pleasure. I didn't really know much about Dr.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Peter Breen until re really into, well into this whole covid debacle that's going on. But this isn't new for him. This ki type of fight is not new for him. He's, he's been doing this, going against the big dogs, helping the underdog, helping the, the down trod. And since high school, I just found out really he, you know, hold people accountable who are trying to beat up his friends

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But but really, truly, he is the giant that most of us shoulders were standing on. And we may not even know it. And I encourage to go check out his story cuz we're not gonna be able to get into the entire story. But we're gonna hear snippets of his, of his experience and the troubles and the tribulations and the trials that he's gone through in the [00:02:00] past that has steeled him for now and that we can look back to as motivation to get through those hard times.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Sir, it's, it's a pleasure to have you on.

Dr. Peter Breggin: Well, I'm really getting to know you. I think I've interviewed you twice now, haven't I? Sam?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yes, sir. And it's been my pleasure every time.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: now.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And I'd certainly, folks, I think he's a great person to contribute some substance toward. He's a, are real fighter for our rights and he's good man. Good man. Yeah, I can sort of figure out how, when I was very young I grew up it's as if God set it up. He had you know, he, he had this genetically Jewish little boy being born and being born into Kind of a, a, a new middle class family.

Dr. Peter Breggin: My father came over when he was nine and my mother was born [00:03:00] here. But her father came over and not outta great circumstances from, basically from poland. The not Warsaw, but what were the stets, the little villages, many of which no longer exist right after World War ii. When they did an inventory with people of, where did you come from?

Dr. Peter Breggin: They began to find all kinds of little Jewish villages, small towns that did not exist anymore. And if you go to ve, which is the Holocaust Museum of Israel, they have this amazing display of the twinkling lights of the villages that are gone. They like stars in the sky. I hope I'm remembering that accurately.

Dr. Peter Breggin: That's decades ago that I saw that. And I came into the world and born into a community that was new ish. They had all moved out from Brooklyn and from New Jersey and some from Manhattan to live on the south shore of Long [00:04:00] Island. Most of the people were reasonably well off. My parents were at the time middle class, but by the time I went to college, my dad was actually controller of 20th Century Fox.

Dr. Peter Breggin: So he, he really rose up in the New York City business world, which is where the business officers of Fox were. I'm the second child and I think that my mother felt overwhelmed with raising children. Family background was really, really quite terrible. And my dad had been ripped away from his father and brought to the US when he was nine, so he didn't have a good idea about all that stuff. And so they even though he lived in a duplex, not, not in a mansion, they brought a black child up from probably Georgia. Her name was literally Bessie. Mike Bessie Smith, a great singer. And I believe she was 16 when she arrived in 20 when she left. And she, me and duplex, . I lived in a small room with her, basically, [00:05:00] and I know that I identified with her, not my parents for the first four years of my life.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And when they discovered , I, I lost my complete memory for her until I had a dream in my thirties with my mother using the N word and saying, you love that person more than you love your own mother. And I'm imagining being in a crib and hearing these words. And I then remembered Betsy , and I actually eventually found her and got to meet her.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And she'd been in touch with the rest of the family after she left us when I was four, or probably probably driven out. Well after that happened, actually, I refused to eat for the white folks, and they were, they were forced, I think I think they, they must have sent the sheriff to her in Brooklyn or something, but I think she left her husband, certainly her husband to be, and came back and stayed another several months until kindergarten started, and then she left again.

Dr. Peter Breggin: So my first act of rebellion [00:06:00] was to refuse to leave for the white folks. I remember Bessie defending me. I remember Bessie sort of being my guardian.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's almost like a reverse Moses story.

Dr. Peter Breggin: Yeah. That's interesting. It is. It's like I'm, I'm found in the, in the bull rushes, but I've been put there and by my parents and well, that's interest.

Dr. Peter Breggin: I mean, that, that's mind blowing. But anyway, Moses, I am not. And I I grew up with a critical eye of what was going on around me and I grew up really quite depressed. I was not particularly outstanding. And then when I was 12 or so, they didn't like to have me around in the summers. It was nice to have their.

Dr. Peter Breggin: The first born around, but I didn't seem to fit in. And they sent me to Boy Scout camp. And the Boy Scout camp was actually a place for troubled kids. I wasn't a troubled kid. I was, you know, doing reasonably good and everything. And I I made a best [00:07:00] friend at camp whose name was Richard Tilley, any of his relatives are around.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And he and I really had fun together. And somehow or other we ended up bef the night I left cuz I, I really, really had to leave the camp. It was so horrible. I, I was carrying a hunting knife to prevent a very large person from bullying me from New York City. Very poor person. Literally carrying a honey knife.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And since it was Boy Scout camp, I could get away with it, but it was a pretty big honey knife. , I'm not even sure where I got it. And. Strange upbringing for, for a Jewish boy. And when I got back, my mother, who really was not a very sensitive person, was reading a local news day. I've not been able to find this article, but it would've would've been thirty, nineteen, thirty six I'm born.

Dr. Peter Breggin: It would've been sometime about 40, maybe. And it was she said somebody died at camp at polio. Well, I'd been wrestling with Richard Tilley, I [00:08:00] think, in our skives in front of the other boys two days before he died. And the, the sense of what the polio epidemics meant is really in many ways beyond Covid 19 in many ways.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And especially for Jews. I think we viewed it as a kind of pilgrim . I think my mother thought it was a disease. The go set. It was, it was you know, it was During my God, it's actually during World War II and the Holocaust, which I never actually put that together. That would've well, from born in 36, and we're talking about 46.

Dr. Peter Breggin: So it's three years after the Holocaust became known, widely known in 1944. This is all new. You can say, I have not put this together in this, this way before. And she called the she was very very upset and like angry at God. She was not being sympathetic, and she called our our GP who told her that he couldn't do anything about it [00:09:00] if, if I got a cold and a sore throat to give him a call, and my mother got off the phone cursing him.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And so I went to bed that night. Bessie had taught me about God. There was just nothing about God in my upbringing at all. Very secular. And so I prayed to God and I told him that if he let me live to be 16, I'd be the best little boy in the world.

Dr. Peter Breggin: the beginning of a reformer. Now I enter the sixth grade and I'm a tour earlier than, than the other kids, mostly physically, sexually earlier, but all of a sudden I was a different person. As adolescents hit, I was the fastest runner in the class. Suddenly I'm an athlete. We're getting together with the two other schools that are feeding into the junior high.

Dr. Peter Breggin: We're going to, I'm the fastest runner in the all the schools. All of a sudden, people know my name. I win the a hundred yard dash and I'm elected class [00:10:00] president and I do not understand any of this, but. it continued. Accept being a great runner. Eventually. I was no longer that great runner, but I was good.

Dr. Peter Breggin: I was good enough to take fifth in the a hundred yard dash of the entire county of Nassau in my CT year. . So I got a point and that's a funny point cuz I was short and kind of chubby, so I was a short, chubby kid who was just making it across the line. Cause a hundred yards for me was a very long distance.

Dr. Peter Breggin: I played football because I could get full speed in five strides. I was five four with short legs, five, four. So almost impossible to, to bring me down my, my, my most important athletic event was I tried to tackle Jimmy Brown. Do you know who Jimmy Brown is? Jimmy Brown was, is probably the greatest runner in the history of the N F L and he was at another high school.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And Jimmy [00:11:00] Brown looked like an Adonis. at the age of 18. And I do remember, I actually held onto to him and then two other guys came and held onto him and he took all three of us across the goal line .

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I'm guessing he's probably a foot taller, almost a foot taller than you.

Dr. Peter Breggin: Oh God. Union. Yeah. No, Jimmy, yeah.

Dr. Peter Breggin: Well, five four, he was probably about, I think he was around six one, but really built like a Madonna. He, he was just amazing. It, it certainly, it certainly would kept me aware of my true size and strength which was vastly overestimated in my mind.

Dr. Peter Breggin: when it came to defending myself with my dress . In senior year of high school I actually wrote an editorial for our newspaper. I was out of the paper and about that if we kept building atomic bombs, we'd be fighting with sticks and stones [00:12:00] in the war after that one. So I was thinking about these things very early on and because in those days, young people didn't think about this stuff.

Dr. Peter Breggin: We're talking about the fifties, you know, we didn't think about this stuff and I actually got to read it on The Voice of America in New York. I went to New York City and, and read the editorial in The Voice of America. But the most interesting thing I did be, because it's so unusual, was we had this teacher who was, thought she was very, very intellectual.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And so she, in our senior year, those of us that were good students, we got to go to a special class that was set up combining history and literature, which sounded very interesting to me. And she taught it. She taught the combined history and literature course and she did a mock trial of the north of our having A war crimes trial against North Korean soldiers for pillaging and raping.

Dr. Peter Breggin: So it's the North Korean soldiers. It was not as I recall, their leaders. [00:13:00] And I raised my hand and said I'll defend them now. This was, was quite bizarre. Everybody in the class, I'm sure and I went and I got, I had my dad and some other people pick up newspapers from the city and I looked at all the rape going on and all the murder going on by young men.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And I presented that as my evidence. And I argued that how could we hold young men responsible for doing atrocities under wartime where they're taught to murder and destroy. and their leaders want them to. How could we hold them responsible when we have boys doing the same things in a, in the land of the free without any war going on here?

Dr. Peter Breggin: The teacher was quite actually angry at me. But I look back on that and I have no idea where at my age I would've come up exactly with that. Other [00:14:00] than what I'm sort of telling you. I'm telling you most of what I know about how I would've gone in that direction. When I went to college I was very afraid to go to Harvard.

Dr. Peter Breggin: My best friend had gotten into Harvard already and I'd applied and I was put on a waiting list. And our class was this amazing class of young Jewish kids who were stars. I've never been in a more interesting group of people until Covid 19 and the. Christian equivalent of my young friends in a way, these young, vital, excited, wanting to do good things in the world.

Dr. Peter Breggin: Youngsters, back in 19, well, cla grad class, graduated in 54 until, until the group I'm in now of the Freedom Fighters. I've never been in such an amazing group of people where had so many friends that I could trust and believe in and, and, and feel really equal in, in the desire to, you know, do something worthwhile.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And I happened to meet a man who was later [00:15:00] become a lawyer, famous lawyer, and he was a also at the beach club I was working at, we were locker boys, essentially glorified locker boys. I had worked there for years and . He said to me, he told me he was going to Harvard. And I said, that's great.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And I said, I said, I'm in the waiting list. He says, how could you be on the waiting list? I said, I don't know. So he called the admissions people. He would later be a very, very important attorney, though I'm flagging out his name now, doing defense work I think against McCarthy. The, but maybe that's not possible.

Dr. Peter Breggin: He wouldn't been grown up then yet. It was something. So he calls the admissions department and he says, well, he, he never came for an interview. He's on the waiting list cuz that's what we do and people come, just don't come. So I'd been afraid to go and I didn't have parents who were involved enough with me to ask me about it.

Dr. Peter Breggin: The only person that asked me about it. So I went to Harvard and I got into Harvard, I think [00:16:00] that day. Thought I was there. . And so this school that had never put anybody into the Ivy League was so amazing. We had two kids at Harvard, somebody at a Yale. We had somebody in m i d. We had women at the top women's schools.

Dr. Peter Breggin: There was just this am amazing generation. Well, I didn't know what I was gonna do at Harvard. I told my dad I wanted to be a labor union leader, . And he said, son, you can't come from a middle class family and go to college and everything and become a labor leader. You'd have to be a laborer, I think

Dr. Peter Breggin: So I'm searching for what, what can I do to make a contribution? And I got into a special program at Harvard on American history and literature. And by the way, for the two of us to get in, this was not a private school. This was a small public school. We probably had 110 kids in the class.

Dr. Peter Breggin: One day I am studying. I'd had a deep interest in psychology. I was already reading a lot of psychology on my own, mostly to just try to get my head straight. So I was [00:17:00] reading Freud, I was reading Play-Doh and Aristotle on my own things. No, but no, people didn't do back then when you were my that age nowadays it wouldn't be so unusual maybe.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And my friend came by and said, no, me and my brother are are starting a volunteer program at the local state mental hospital.

Dr. Peter Breggin: Now comes two other stories that I left out when I was nine or 10. It was 1944 or early 45. We went to the family, we went to a family movie to watch, I don't remember what it was. And they had a, something called movie tone news. Then. and it came on first with a big booming voice on the news. And all of a sudden there's the the first videos that any of us has seen, certainly are film, first film of the liberation of a Nazi extermination camp.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And I suddenly [00:18:00] saw Jewish people like me in heaps, dead heaps, hanging onto wires and looking out from them. And I didn't want to watch it. I put my head down and my mother's my father went to make me look, look up, and my mother said, no. He, you know, and they had a little argument, a brief argument, and my dad said, he needs to watch this.

Dr. Peter Breggin: Do you remember how old you were at this? He never spoke to me about it again. I would've been nine, maybe 10, somewhere right in there. 44, 45. That's dramatic for a nine year old. Credible. I actually not long after, I think began to wonder, certainly when I had a young girlfriend at age 12, 13, you know, whether they could take her away.

Dr. Peter Breggin: I mean, it stayed with me that this could happen. I didn't have any big distinction in my mind. I wasn't old enough to understand America versus [00:19:00] Germany and our principles and those old, you know, great ocean between us, whatever. But I took it very personally and I began thinking even about what I would do, and I decided I would die before they did that to me.

Dr. Peter Breggin: I'd take somebody with me very young, and then this was this kind of thing that I think God was just exposing me. Then my Uncle Dutch came back from the war. , one of those men who loved the war, he became an officer and was going to go back to something fairly pedestrian. And he'd taken pictures of the torture chamber at one of these cons, really not concentration camps or extermination camps.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And he showed them to me, which should, should have put him in jail, I think. So I knew the worst of the worst of the worst imaginable pictures of it. And when I went into the state mental hospital, I [00:20:00] felt like I was walking into something close to what I'd seen that, that the people were so wretched, their conditions, the treatment was so callous and the, I went to the with a few of the students to the women's violent ward.

Dr. Peter Breggin: I don't know how they managed to get us into that. And may, maybe they'd been given keys that early. And within a year I was a leader of this program, two, 300 people. And I convinced the, well, I'll tell you, I got to see, I, I was so familiar to the nurses after a while, I spent two summers there that I got, I kept the keys they gave me, so I had my own keys to the hospital.

Dr. Peter Breggin: I could go most places. And I got to see electro shock treatment and especially insulin coma.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I wanna ask if you were seeing this, cuz you, you just mentioned the electro shock, the [00:21:00] therapy, and I didn't really know much about the insulin coma until I started studying some of your, your videos. But frontal lobotomies, were you seeing that as well?

Dr. Peter Breggin: Well, I saw the patients who'd been lobotomized, they never sat, and they didn't even do surgical lobotomy there. They shipped them off to probably Boston State Hospital, I think to do the lobotomites at a bigger hospital, not bigger, but more modern.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Were you, you have to warn, wonder about consent?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Were these patients able to

Dr. Peter Breggin: Oh, no. There's no consent in the state hospital.

Dr. Peter Breggin: No. No. There is no more consent in a state mental hospital than in a Nazi extermination camp. No. No difference. And I would use that information later on in a, in an extremely important trial. I'll, I'll jump ahead. Way ahead. It's 1972 and I've decided that I've had all my training at Harvard and Upstate Medical Center in New York, and [00:22:00] I've done a, I've been an Lieutenant Commander in US Public Health Service as a they called us consultants, full-time consultants, and I was at the National Institute of Mental Health, sort of the pinnacle of a career, very early.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And I realized it was not gonna be a place for me in what I'd learned in the state mental hospital, which is that the psychiatry is doing far more harm than good and what we have to do. I was now a psychiatrist. A psychiatrist has really turned things around and I realized I couldn't turn things around.

Dr. Peter Breggin: Things had changed so much, so I better go back to the little bit to the original story. So I decided to become a psychiatrist. I started my first book, which was eventually published with four names on it cause I had left and it was finished by some of the other volunteers. I published my first article.

Dr. Peter Breggin: So a speech. I gave a Yale at a conference on volunteering. This is all this in college. I got to know the professors at Harvard cuz they were very interested in our program [00:23:00] and I set up a a case aid program. And they didn't wanna do this. They, they, they thought we would hurt the patients. And I, and there was professional jealousy.

Dr. Peter Breggin: The psychoanalyst never went to the Boston Ho psychoanalyst, the most famous psychoanalyst in the United States. They never went in the state mental hospital. They didn't want us, they protested our quote, treating patients as students. And what we were doing was visiting, we were each g under my development and they gave us 12 of our own patients that we could go visit when we came out.

Dr. Peter Breggin: So it was acknowledged that they were our patients, they were our friends of our companions. We called ourselves companions, and we went out and talked to them. And we had about 15 students. And instead of hurting these patients, we got 12 out of 15 outta the hospital on follow up for a year or two.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And it made so clear to me that what people were missing was [00:24:00] love and attention. Boy, that I learned that fast. I never got threatened on the back wards of the men's place or the women's place now have to realize I'm walking around. I dressed like a college student and probably a, probably in a dress shirt maybe or some other, but clearly a college student.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And I'm, as I said, despite my pretentions to glory and, and sports and self-defense, I was very not large. I never had anybody try to intimidate me. I never had anybody do anything but treatment with respect in four years. , the scariest thing I had when a very large man came up to me and looked down at me and said, I smoke Lucky Strike, and proceeded on his way down the car, , it's so unusual, it stands out in my mind.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And when we were there, the patients were much better to each other. The [00:25:00] aids didn't come running out and hit anybody, which I did see happen. One occasion eventually, we had so many people going through the hospital that abuse really fell as best as we could tell from the nurses and everybody.

Dr. Peter Breggin: But this program then I also got turned into a full credit course in the second year. I went to the head of the Department of Psychology, Robert White. I told him about the program, he thought this was a great idea, and we set it up and it became a credit seminar. So you had your own for the second year, you had your own patient at the hospital.

Dr. Peter Breggin: A you were getting a seminar about human relations. All this kind of thing could not be set up now, by the way, because everybody, all stu, all doctors are taught you can't talk to schizophrenia, can't talk to that disease. It's like talking to, you know, a plague or something. But there were more humanistic trends in psychiatry than, than now far more.

Dr. Peter Breggin: That's why I went in, I mean, I swear there was a communist psychiatry. There certainly was a [00:26:00] socialist psychiatry. You could take a socialist psychiatry kind of a, of a residency. They called it community psychiatry. I didn't do that. I, I was very individually oriented even then. And . I got through my training and as I said, I moved on.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And then I was in private practice. I wore jeans. This is 1968 with long hair and I didn't own a suit and and all of a sudden I'm looking through a psychiatric newspaper and there's an article. Lobotomy is coming back. I'd seen lobotomized patients just, just imagine somebody who's been concussed nearly to death, who had piece enough pieces of brain taken at 'em that they just didn't function anymore.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And you could see a spark of life. I could see a spark of life in heavily lobotomized people. They would relate to me through it just a [00:27:00] little bit, like fighting through a, like you're in a thunderstorm and you're trying to communicate or something. . And I, I read about this. They'd had a big comedian in Copenhagen, I'm sure.

Dr. Peter Breggin: I had no idea what country Copenhagen was in. And I, I, I read about all these people and what they were doing and I just thought to myself, now this has gotta be stopped. It can't come back like it. The only reason it went out of favor was that the new drugs, that the antipsychotic drugs basically did a chemical lobotomy.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And the doctors felt so much better cuz they need, didn't need a surgeon. Well, they didn't need to be crazy. Like one of the psychiatrists, Walter Freeman, who did his own ice pick operations, he'd shock the person into a coma and then put an ice pick around their eye and threw the very thin bone and swish it.

Dr. Peter Breggin: You need a detail like that folks, human beings do this to each other. You must understand, understand covid 19. You must understand what I'm saying today. . To understand globalism, you must understand what I'm saying [00:28:00] today. This is why this whole story, ginger and I could write the deepest dive, you know, COVID 19 and the global predators.

Dr. Peter Breggin: We are the pray why I, we could together do this deepest dive into the harvest behind globalism. Because I had this introduction. Eventually I became a world expert for the drug companies against them, against the drug companies. So I had a lot of background before, so I had no idea what it would entail

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: to give a little detail there on the, the man who did the ice pick lobotomies.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Now, if I'm not mistaken, didn't he have a van and didn't he just drive around and didn't he brag about how many he could do in one day? Now I, you know, I hate to be this graphic with the, the listener, but it's important to understand

Dr. Peter Breggin: this. Yeah, he did all that. I knew a lot about him. Yeah. . See, I became the first psychiatrist to ever stand up to him and to prepare to testify in court [00:29:00] against him.

Dr. Peter Breggin: I've got a lot of these little cute things in my background, . But he died during, just before the trial. I was all told enough to go after him. And it was about a poor soul in Washington, DC where he was located and where I was located at the time. And she was so injured. She used to call any doctor she could to tell him that Walter Freeman had stolen her soul or something like that.

Dr. Peter Breggin: It's really pitiful. And I think it was the suit was around her, as I remember. It's quite way back now. Yes, Freeman would actually stand up in an amphitheater with hundreds of doctors going, going up to the sky in the back of the amphitheater. , he would bring the patient in, he would layer out on the table, give her one electro shock, which puts you into a severe coma.

Dr. Peter Breggin: It's supposed to be not harmful to the brain. It's worse than a typical car crash concussion. Actually, each one is worse.[00:30:00]

Dr. Peter Breggin: The and when the person was out without sterilizing it, he would take an old fashioned ice pick we wouldn't handle, and he would pull back the eyelid of the person and find a way around the eye and then tap it. And the bone back there is very, I think it's the thinnest skull bone, and push it into the front of lobes and swish it.

Dr. Peter Breggin: He's known to have done it with both hands at once to show off. , then the person would gradually awaken from the E C T in whatever condition they'd come in in. Whether they came in smiling, whether they came in rageful, whether they came in frightened, they were changed, they no longer cared. And that's basically to some degree what all injury to the brain does so [00:31:00] bad enough.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And you end up and, but you still are sentient in some ways you don't care. And unfortunately, I think we're seeing some of this, of the Covid 19 vaccines where people are beginning to look like that. Some people, they don't care as much. No one ever stood up to Freeman in public until this little guy

Dr. Peter Breggin: It was pretty, I'm trying to remember it. That's the where it is in the whole chronology of so many things that I did do. But as I said, we could not go ahead with the trial. But I was in the middle then of a whole campaign against Psychosurgery. I thought I would get some support from some well-known physicians or psychiatrists.

Dr. Peter Breggin: I did not. There was a couple of leftist psychiatrists who were marginal in the, in the [00:32:00] establishment who supported me and maybe three or four others who might have lent some support but would not do it in public. But I got the support of Congressman Louis Stokes and Congressman Ron Dellums and. , I got the support of my own senator.

Dr. Peter Breggin: I went to him and he said, this sounds awful. He was a conservative. He said, this sounds awful, this sounds immoral. I will help you. And he did. I went to the Black caucus and told him they were doing it to little children in Tennessee and excuse me, at the University of Mississippi. And that was the only place I got any cooperation from a psychiatrist in the establishment.

Dr. Peter Breggin: I called up the director, the chairman. This is very early in, in this whole thing cuz I was mostly upset. You can imagine with my upbringing, which I probably did not yet remember, did not recall that childhood [00:33:00] upbringing. Let's see. Somewhere along that area. I began to remember it. But what, mostly one of the main things that motivated me to go after the psychos turgeon, when I found out they were doing it to four and five year olds, , sound familiar, black children in a segregated institution.

Dr. Peter Breggin: It was one of the few scientific series that never mentioned the race of people. It was so interesting. It was made me very suspicious. Cause she almost always put down the race, you know, white, 49 year old, divorced, married, whatever, two or three words about each patient. These are just children. And I called a lawyer down there who was with a poverty kind of lawyer.

Dr. Peter Breggin: We used to have poverty programs with lawyers that were funded by the state and the Fed and I, I said, could you go into this institution and maybe we could somehow find out what the race were, these kids? He said, I can tell you right now, doc, it's a segregated institution. and he'd take the kids out of the institution and [00:34:00] bring them to the University of Mississippi in Jackson.

Dr. Peter Breggin: Not Ole Miss then. I didn't know the difference, so I had to learn that. That's not Ole Miss. It was the University of Mississippi in Jackson, and he'd operate on them and put multiple electrodes in their heads and leave them in permanently dangling like braids. He'd toy with them and sometimes he'd stimulate, sometimes he'd burn a little hole.

Dr. Peter Breggin: I wanted to stop that man so bad, and I did. I stopped every known Psychosurgery project in the United States at that time. Four hours done and a number of them around the world. We still have one or two cooking away. I think Harvard may still have one or Brown, but they don't talk much.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's the same stuff that Mangala was.

Dr. Peter Breggin: I don't know that he ever put electrodes in the child's head. He may not have because the Nazis thought lobotomy made useless eaters and that something,

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: [00:35:00] so it wasn't even as bad. So the Nazis were not doing it because they were afraid it could keep you from working. And we, here we are doing worse.

Dr. Peter Breggin: Yeah, that's right.

Dr. Peter Breggin: Make you a, make you a useless theater, which it kind of does do, but you're not useless. There's still a person inside. But they did love electro shock and they did electro shock experiments. And a guy named Robert Lifton who wrote a book on Nazi psychiatrists I've written articles, an big article about that.

Dr. Peter Breggin: He actually said the one thing you could say for the, for the German psychiatrist, the Nazi psychiatrist, was they did experiments on E EC t. That was the one good thing they did. . Can you imagine that? How corrupt our profession is that a, that a, a liberal famous psychiatrist could get away with saying that in the book.

Dr. Peter Breggin: It was one good thing they did was electric shock experiments. Jesus. So where am I with all of this? I [00:36:00] mentioned that the state hospitals are very similar to the concentration camps. Well, in 1972 and 73, I was the expert. The main, there were ma many exo. But I was the key expert for trial against Psychosurgery in a state mental hospital in Michigan.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And you can look it up, you can find it on my website. You can find this, A lot of this on my website. I did a good chapter on it in a book called The War Against Show of Color, but you don't really need to go in that misery. The and I met Ginger at that trial. She was with the A C L U and she picked me up the airport and I fell in love with her.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And there's a lot, everybody's my friend knows. I fell in love with her and I got so frightened that I went home, told my wife that I'd fallen in love. We got separated, eventually divorced, and I never told Ginger 10 [00:37:00] years. I didn't doubt Ginger that I'd fallen in love with her. I was so scared. . And then God put us together in the weirdest way 10 years later, and on the day I asked her to marry me within two hours.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And we've been together ever since. But so ginger's there, it's a momentous time. And . So they had already prepped me and they were worried about other experts. And so I had dinner with Ginger before. And then the next day Friday, I went to do my testimony and the well, ginger with me. And

Dr. Peter Breggin: she was, she glowed. She's a, she was, she's always just been something, something that changes my life. And I put her along and she's standing with me and, and Gabe GameWiz comes up and says, oh, those guys. And he curses and all. He says, you know what they're gonna do? They have now postponed your testimony by, by just bringing up all kinds of [00:38:00] nonsense so that you'll have to begin in the afternoon.

Dr. Peter Breggin: and that means you'll have to, you, you'll finish Friday e afternoon, and then they can take the whole weekend to go over your testimony with the surgeons. I don't think any of the surgeon wanted to come hear me. So they, they were in this interesting position where they'd just managed to jockey it so that when my testimony was over, it'd be the end of the day.

Dr. Peter Breggin: I said, Gabe, I, I can testify on a whole new stuff I never told you about. He said, how can you create a testimony? We have 15 minutes lunch. The lunch is over, and Bill going on the stand? I said, I'll do a history of psychiatry and I'll talk about Nurnberg code and at least try to set it up for you so you can apply the Nurnberg code to these state mental hospitals.

Dr. Peter Breggin: Because the, because people have no more freedom in, in the state mental hospital than they do in a concentration or extermination camp. They have no more freedom. [00:39:00] And by the way, the percentage of deaths is darn near as high as they were in the death camps that were created in the state mental hospitals.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And I said, you know, his five questions just keep asking me stuff about, well, tell me some more about what happened. Talk Toren. So I testified all afternoon about the state mental hospital system in which this patient was supposedly giving consent. And it was a key point for the judges. It was a three judge panel when they came back and said that you could not possibly give consent to Psychosurgery and a state mental hospital because Psychosurgery the hospitals were overwhelming, but also the surgery destroyed human capacity.

Dr. Peter Breggin: There's two things that I was arguing.

Dr. Peter Breggin: So that's about where I was. , that's the beginning of it all, . And I've been putting together the pieces ever so ever since I can tell you that the attack I [00:40:00] came under for going against psychosurgery shocked me. I didn't think I'd be attacked for going against phlebotomy. Psychosurgery. I got amazing support from women's groups because the majority of people were women, not children.

Dr. Peter Breggin: I got good support from African American groups. I got C support from Congress, which I would never get now. But not from the medical profession, except for some people who are taking stands on one thing or another, but not in psychiatry. And from a few psychiatrists who, you know, they'd be there for me to vouch for me maybe.

Dr. Peter Breggin: At that time later, there were a lot who vouched

for

Dr. Peter Breggin: me when I, I I needed later. But basically this was just me working with as many people as I could. And it's before Ginger, you know, there's a, there's a, a Peter who's a BG and before Ginger , an age, age G, extra Ginger. We've been [00:41:00] together for 40 years, but this is 60 years or whatever ago.

Dr. Peter Breggin: The, there were some breakthroughs. The AMA published an article by me. I , a mother brought her, told me to, that she'd heard about me and, and her son, and I'd been talking, writing about him and she heard I'd been writing about him and how they harmed him, but that while they were claiming he was a cure, and she said, but you have no idea how much they damaged him.

Dr. Peter Breggin: They made my son into a vegetable and they're, and they're claiming he's a cure from what your, your quotes, you were, you were giving. Then I went to see him and they literally had turned a fairly ordinary engineer who had some marital conflicts and who got referred to them. They worked him up and they, this, the surgery on him and they made him into a helpless, psychotic, totally, totally destroyed his, his capacities, and that's what he was when I met him.

Dr. Peter Breggin: But he was sitting with a tent of. Newspaper [00:42:00] over him lying that on leave for the day or two with his mom from the local va. And, and he said to me, you know, they stolen my brain, but if I have an IQ of 180, and then he wouldn't say much again for a while. And it was just really a pitiful situation, heartbreaking situation.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And I wrote him up with the mother's permission. And that was a part of shutting down these projects. I shut down the Harvard project with the work I was doing, and I found out that they were getting special secret, like funding from ni from Congress. They got Congress to give the, the, the leader of this project, which was probably the strongest, one of the strongest men in the world medicine.

Dr. Peter Breggin: William Sw. He was the. Director of neurosurgery at Mass General at Big Harvard Hospital, and I was going after him and his projects and he actually had a private foundation. He had set up with money from the Justice Department and money from N I M H. Why Justice Department? [00:43:00] Cuz he was telling people that get o rioters needed, lobotomies needed psychosurgery who cure them.

Dr. Peter Breggin: They were abnormal, they weren't ordinary black people. They were abnormal. So then that racism issue, which again from my childhood, you could see how that, how that would touch me.

Dr. Peter Breggin: The let me take a breath. Let me see. I can just about see you. You're blurring in and out. Why don't I take a breath and why don't you say a few words.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, one thing that I, I noticed in what you're describing with these phlebotomies, it seems that, you know, we were doing worse things than, than I, well, some worse things, right?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That the atrocities in those death camps were horrible, awful, terrible things. But we were doing, we were supposed to be this, this shining tower, this beacon of light that was judging the world on rules that are written on men's heart. And, and we should have, they should have known better. And here we're doing the same things, just as terrible things, you know, slightly different, but just as terrible.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: [00:44:00] And, and now that that's gone, we see the psychiatry world doing the same thing to children now with transgender. and it's, it's absolutely sickening to see how they're destroying lives of children who are incapable of making these informed decisions. They're taking away all of their reproductive for the rest of their life and they can never go back.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And if they do go back, it's a, it's a terrible existence because everything in their body has changed. And it's, it's the same playbook.

Dr. Peter Breggin: Yes. And there, there's another thing they've been doing, which I attacked just before Covid started, and it seemed like it was shut down, but they've it was my last project against psychiatry at that time, cuz then Covid hit they have a project called Monarch. You can look it up where they put a cap.

Dr. Peter Breggin: No, they put electrodes. on the foreheads of children overnight. Kids diagnosed A D H D, [00:45:00] which means a normal child. These are normal children. You put I mean, they don't think they're normal, but believe me, they're normal. They're usually the youngest in the class, as one of their characteristics. The, and they put electrodes on their forehead and stimulate their brains overnight.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And the electricity is going back up the trigeminal nerve, which is mostly an a nerve that is sending impulses down. That's most of what it does, like make your chump and stuff, has some coming back up to, and they're taking an electric hammer up. The biology meant to send down subtle orchestrated impulses through the nerve system.

Dr. Peter Breggin: They're smashing back up the brain. , but these electrical pulses that are with that are, are, you know, bang, bang, bang. They're not anything the brain can [00:46:00] deal with. And they did, they had very few children in the trials, even though then the trials produced a lot of adverse effects. But this is, this, this gets approved by an even worse part of the FDA than the drug part.

Dr. Peter Breggin: This is the part that that approves the machines. And this, this is the, this is the group that supports the psychos surgeons by never, never asking them to prove or any safety and effectiveness for their phlebotomies. This is the group that, that let psych electro shock go without approval at all until just before again, COVID.

Dr. Peter Breggin: I was in a trial. I was in a trial and against lecture shock. Company manufacturer. It was like, I think this was finally came out in 2020 very early, but it was probably 2019. And they did a summary judgment. They asked the [00:47:00] judge to dismiss the case on the grounds. There's no evidence anywhere that shot treatment causes harm to the brain.

Dr. Peter Breggin: So my job was to write a really good essay on electroshock brain damage. The judge read it and he said that there was sufficient scientific evidence presented to him to make it a jury question. This trial was going to the jury. They're gonna go to trial. We were gonna go to China, and within two days, the drug company sent a whole new thing, a whole new list of adverse effects to the FDA quoted textbooks.

Dr. Peter Breggin: That admitted to the probability of brain damage and the certainty of memory loss and put in their, in their pamphlet that went along with the machine that Doctors Beware was on you to know and to inform people about the dangers. So this was like a huge victory followed within a week by the F D A approving E [00:48:00] C T for the first time.

Dr. Peter Breggin: The coordinated defense, I mean, folks don't get frustrated when you don't make a lot of progress. I'm an expert at it. We go forward, they jump.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: When I was in med school, I got to hang out in a closed psych ward for a little while, not, not as a patient, as a med student. And they had one patient that would get E ec t done.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I had no idea. It wasn't FDA until right now FDA approved until right now. Wow. That was back in 2000.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And now it's only approved of, I think, catatonia. Yeah. Now they approve for catatonia and I think severe depression. That's not amenable to any other treatment options or something

Dr. Peter Breggin: they still have never tested. It's untested because the tests that are done occasionally are so bad. The results, they're either lying, cheating, and clearly can't approve the study [00:49:00] or the damage is so bad to animals. They gave up studying the damage to animals in 1954 because they were getting some horrendous results from large animals.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And interestingly enough, I I talked to a very thoughtful psychiatrist and I just met a while back and he said, well, I don't know much about E C T, but haven't they, haven't, they made it much safer than it used to be. . Now he is a very smart man. Now, he wasn't gonna refer people, but I, I hope, but he, he thought it was safer than it used to be.

Dr. Peter Breggin: Well, in the past you would back in say, 1948 or 1954 or 55, you'd give shock treatment charted in 38, you could give a convulsion, usually with a 100 amp milli amps, 100 milli amps for a split second, maybe 0.1 0.5. Now, the machines don't allow you to give [00:50:00] anything less than 800, eight times. The dosage usually takes to cause a convulsion.

Dr. Peter Breggin: You can't even tighter back like they used to trying to give the least possible amps. They tell you 800 or 900, the machines are set and instead of allowing maybe your choice of going up to. To a half a second to give the jolt. You can give it for eight seconds. Now you the no machines are like a sledgehammer compared to a bang with a symbol.

Dr. Peter Breggin: But again, so you see how it wasn't too hard for me and Ginger, cuz Ginger worked with me in all this stuff. Not too hard for us to begin to see through Anthony Fauci in five minutes and begin to realize there's a real horror story behind all this cuz we knew the pharmaceutical industry. When I was I [00:51:00] was back in 1994, I was made the sole scientific expert for all the suits against Eli Lilly appointed by a consortium of attorneys.

Dr. Peter Breggin: They all had suits approved by a federal judge in Indiana. , it's where Eli Lilly is. And I had access to everything that they were supposed to give me to read which I did read and became for first person to really look at their controlled clinical trials and other stuff like that. God knows what they withheld, even though was Ilia to withhold anything.

Dr. Peter Breggin: But the attacks on me then went really up, really up. And that's when I was zeroed out. That's when I went from being on Oprah six straight six times or soon after. And from being on Larry King live in 20, 20 and 60 minutes and everything you could imagine, I was on talking about the risks of psychiatry.

Dr. Peter Breggin: Well, the drug companies moved in, then they [00:52:00] got the right to advertise on tv. And with that kuk, I gradually it was removed from. giving any you know, appearing on any major tv. The last couple of places I appeared on were the Factor and Nity and then nothing. That was a few years ago. Now I get on the conservative press all the time.

Dr. Peter Breggin: So we all prepared for a lot of different things, which everybody now is kind of new to and in some ways they had, you know, short of actually killing us, they couldn't do a lot because we had already been pushed out of the establishment. We had already established us. It was very separately, our own income.

Dr. Peter Breggin: We had weathered an attack on our license when Ginger was with me. She organized the attack. They were so beaten and bleeding by the time Ginger got through with them on the press, in the press for taking away my freedom of [00:53:00] speech on Oprah Winfrey, that they apologized to us. and admitted it was a free speech issue.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I hope someday I can see that vindication.

Dr. Peter Breggin: Oh God, no, it's surround somewhere. They thanked me for my contributions to mental health and state of Maryland, and that was after the commissioner said that he personally was interested in this particular case against Reagan. He was following it and he decided he didn't wanna follow it anymore. and Ginger got the New York Times writing stories, the fact that , but you couldn't do that now, folks.

Dr. Peter Breggin: Things are really closed down since then. Well, I mean, I don't know what to do. I could talk a lot, lot more. Maybe we should do another show later on or something. Or should I take a breath or you ask me some questions?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I think we should do, definitely do another show. And I, I, I wanna be respectful of your time and I thank you [00:54:00] so much for coming on, but it's.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's amazing how all of us are standing on the shoulders of giants, even if they're not actually terribly tall. And it's, it's you, sir. And you know, people of, of your generation,

Dr. Peter Breggin: very sturdy, very sturdy,

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: very stout. And I, I thank the dear Lord that you've already, you know, bla trailblazed this trail for us and that you're still here with us helping us fight this because we, we need all the help we can.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And it's, and especially for the people that, let's say, got the shot because they were tricked. There's forgiveness at the foot of Jesus. Or if you're, you're Jewish, there's, there's forgiveness at, at the foot of God there. Whatever faith you are, there's forgiveness. You don't need to get more, you need to join on the side of freedom.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: We're not on, God's not on our side. We're on God's side fighting for freedom. And if you notice this entire time, everything he's Dr. Bran has talked about is fighting for the underdog, for individual freedom. And that's exactly what's straight from the Bible, you know? Adam and Eve stood naked before God.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: They were equal and they were [00:55:00] bare naked. There was nothing preventing them from, from being exposed to God. Because if you look at God as the law, they were, they had to be judged by the law. They had to be judged by God, and when they did not follow the rules, they were kicked out. And then that puts us in the place we are today.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And, and so it's important to, to bring it back to that, that we're all children of God and there is forgiveness and there is, there is that forgiveness at, at the foot of the cross. Now our fight is not against flesh and blood, it's against the rulers and princes of penalties of darkness in this un unseen realm.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But people who have done these horrible, terrible things, they will need to stand before trial either on this earth, hopefully in a illegal and, and proper manner, or when they meet their maker. But there will be, there will be justice at some point.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you so much for joining me.

Dr. Peter Breggin: Yes. Amen. Amen. [00:56:00] Amen. Let me, I just had a thought about a next show cuz there's something I've never done was just talk in detail about my own experience with the attacks on me and also how to win to really focus this kind of a amalgam of me and my thoughts. But maybe you could focus on attacks.

Dr. Peter Breggin: Encounter attacks, and what do we need to do to win? What have I learned about winning

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And, and the unfortunate part, at least I'm saying is being right and winning is not a huge victory because I prayed to God every day. I was wrong. And unfortunately we see every single day that I was more right than I wanted to be.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And it's, everything is much worse than I ever imagined. Oh God. Yeah. And it, it's no. It's no feather. Am I cap right? Yeah.

Dr. Peter Breggin: Well that, that is, that's really true. I'll leave you with just a, let me put a little point on that. You know, when you were talking about America was doing [00:57:00] worse things than, or bad things, the, the United States was way ahead of Hitler on undo Eugen sterilization, mass sterilizations. And we had such powerful advocates for sterilizing the poor, the mentally ill, the retardants on that.

Dr. Peter Breggin: Groups of Americans went to talk with Hitler's psychiatrist, who was Ern Rudin, his official psychiatrist and with Hitler, and to tell him, look what we've done. You can write sterilization laws, you can get started toward euthanasia with the sterilization laws. So we literally, brought security to Hitler and that we, with our, our leadership, it reassured him he'd get no flack from America.

Dr. Peter Breggin: And then one last Titbit in 19 40 41, the American [00:58:00] Psychiatric Association at the time that the euthanasia murders of children were beginning in, in Germany held a debate on what to do about five year old children up to age, who became five, who were mentally retarded. They had only two alternatives in the debate, murder them or sterilize them.

Dr. Peter Breggin: The American Psychiatric Association afterward wrote an editorial supporting the murderers. And now I think about it a little differently than I did then, because I've been thinking a lot about mass murder. That was an editorial in favor of mass murder. All children who reached the age of five or have reached the age of five, that's mass murder, that was the association I belonged to, [00:59:00]

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: and that spirit lives on.

Dr. Peter Breggin: I, I belong against their will. Believe. Believe me, and that spirit goes on the, the globalists are all eugenicists.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: When at the end of the war, the Operation Paperclip brought those same people, the exact same people, the people that were wearing ss, the people that were Nazis, brought them back to America to run our secret operations.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Not all of them. Many of them.

Dr. Peter Breggin: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And now the globalists. Remember, the globalists are basically more favorable toward Marxism in China than toward the us. So that should tell you a lot. And if you wonder if they could possibly wanna commit mass murder with the, with vaccines, yes, they certainly could.

Dr. Peter Breggin: The eugen and that leads to euthanasia. They've made clear that most of humanity is dispensable. Yes, they could [01:00:00] do mass murder, and people have been doing mass murder since civilization began. It won't be anything No. When you realize what's going on. That's it.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you, sir. And I just wanna say that I, I pray every day that we're not on the verge of the largest mass murder ever seen in human history.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I think we're on the precipice of that, that graph that's about to shoot up. And I, I pray I'm wrong every day, and I hope all the listeners also pray that, that I'm wrong. But with that, there is redemption at the foot of Jesus. And God bless you, sir. Thank you so much for coming on and I, I'd love to have you on.

Dr. Peter Breggin: Yeah, the human body is a, i I wanna give a little hope on top of that, human body is amazingly resilient. The mammal in us serves us well at times. That surrounds us. The mammal we live in , the body is very resilient and and I do think that there are divine interventions and we'll just [01:01:00] kind of hope.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And then some of the things you can do to help yourself and to help give a little more hope is eat right and listen to some of my podcasts about how to eat. Listen to episode 54 with me and Dr. Merrit. And there may, if there's a way that we think you can get this out of your system, that may be it. So encourage the listener to go listen to those cuz there is hope, there's forgiveness, but there's also hope for your body.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you, sir. God bless you.

Dr. Peter Breggin: Thank you Sam Sigoloff. Thank you so much, doctor. Thank you so much.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just a reminder for everyone out there due to uniform of the day, the full armor of God, let's all make courage more contagious than fear.