88. Project REGEN
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Gil De Leon: [00:00:00] He was able to convert deserted land into grassland just by focusing on the soil right and using his horses, donkeys, and goats to do that. It's crazy now he has 30,000 acres. It does take massive land to change the micro climate, millions of acres around his ranch that when you see him teach, you can see rainfall coming on his land alone.

Gil De Leon: It's because he is able to change and affect the micro.

Nurse Kelly: Welcome to after Hours with Dr. Sigoloff, where he can share ideas and thoughts with you. He gets to the heart of the issue so that you can find the truth. The views and opinions expressed are his and do not represent the US Army, d o d, nor the US government. Dr. Sigoloff was either off duty or on approved leave and Dr.

Nurse Kelly: SIgoloff was not in uniform at the time of recording now to Dr. Sigoloff .

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you for joining us again. First, I want [00:01:00] to thank all my Patreon supporters. I wanna thank Shell Pace at the $50 level, Sam and Angela Sheey. At the 2020 level, we have the Pandemic Reprimand at $17 and 76 cents. We have Ty, Charles, tinfoil Stanley, Dr.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Anna, who is a guest on this show. Frank Brian. We have Kevin Anos, who made his own level at $10. We have the refined not burn level at $5 with Linda Emmy, Joe Hat, and Bev, pj, Rebecca, Marcus, Elizabeth, Dawn, Jennifer, and then our, our lowest here at $1 a month. Courage is contagious. We have Amanda, j SPTs, Naty, Dorell, Susan, BB Keen, also a previous guest.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And Rick, today I have a very special guest for you, two special guests for you. So one is military. He's still active duty right now. He's about to get out, he's transitioning over and then his, his. Battle buddy, if you will. I'm not currently in the military. I don't know if he was, but he is an entrepreneur and he has experience in this field.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And the reason we're talking about this is, as you know, I think carnivore is the best way [00:02:00] for humans to eat or carnivore adjacent where you're eating some fruit. But we're getting vegetables out of the, out of the mix now. Gil de Deon and Jason Martin, they are doing this project called Project Regen, where it's regenerative farming.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: They're teaching people how to become regenerative farmers so that we can use the land, we can become less dependent on others and more self-sufficient. And, and we'll have Gil on later cuz he's done some other amazing things in the military, help protecting a similar fight to what I'm going through.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But Gil, Jason, thanks for coming on.

Gil De Leon: Absolutely. And thank you for having us, Sam. Absolutely.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So tell us a bit about your project. Tell us what this involves and what you're doing.

Gil De Leon: Absolutely. Absolutely. And first I like to talk about since we're talking about Regener agriculture, what is Regener agriculture? And if you don't mind, I talked that about that first before we talk about operation region or project region or mission region.

Gil De Leon: So Regener agriculture [00:03:00] is the approach to forming that aims to enhance soil health and biodiversity, right? While improving the ecosystem serves in reducing negative environ environmental impacts. You know, and this is achieved through practices such as crop rotation, cover cropping, reduced tillage the integration of several protein species, right?

Gil De Leon: And Regener Agricul seeks to create resilient farmer systems that can adapt to changing environment conditions and provide sustainable food for the future generations. So that's what Regener agriculture is. And now going to Operation Region. And if you look at our current crisis, right, there's a lot of.

Gil De Leon: Strategic cri Christ, where, where old ranchers, 67 year olds can't retire because there's no replacement. Right. And we don't have enough people and manning to man these ranches and farms to restore or move the line of certification. In order to do that, we have to equip and man and [00:04:00] provide the resources for these ranches.

Gil De Leon: How do you do that if people are not experienced? And I think the best way to do that is to attract talented, seasoned veterans that have the management experience, their leadership experience. And all we gotta do is teach 'em how to spell cow and how to regenerate soil through regenerative practices.

Gil De Leon: Right? And I think veterans are the, are the best fit. Anything else you want to add, Jason, to that?

Jason Martin: No, I think that that really captures what we're focusing on very specifically. I think there's a, a lot of whys behind all of those things, and I think there's a, a larger context

Jason Martin: in which we're engaging in that way.

Jason Martin: And, and, and it's a lot to unpack at the end of the day. I think

Jason Martin: probably even the, the concept of it would, would would, would.

Jason Martin: Would propose the question of how

Jason Martin: is it that we're somehow separated from all of our food system? I think probably in the history of [00:05:00] humanity, it would've been a peculiar thing that we're trying to do because it would've assumed that we are very disconnected from all of our food system.

Jason Martin: So yes, we are, but there are certainly many, many implications and underpinnings of why we're even in such a state as this. And it's gonna point well beyond any particular activity to a change in the way that humans engage their own ecology and understand their place in a natural world and the exchange and interdependence of the same.

Gil De Leon: I agree, J and Jason's, right? Right. And he said, ecology. And I think, and, and it leads to a point of theology, right? That plays a huge role in regime agriculture in several ways by promoting soil health, biodiversity ecosystems, and be responsible through stewardship over the earth, right? It's humans keep and humans cannot be excluded.

Gil De Leon: There's an [00:06:00] interconnectness that we cannot ignore, and Jason hit it on the head, you know, theology, ecology. And it's, it's all one thing. And I think that that's what drives us to move forward.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, I think that's, this is probably the best way to be a good steward of the, of the earth, you know, so that we're not leaving a mess behind for our great grandkids, but we're leaving a sustainable future.

Gil De Leon: And I agree. And if you look at the you know, U S D A, they're dumping millions of dollars, right? However, they're dumping millions of dollars to who's going to, who's gonna obtain and secure it and move the line at the optempo and speed that the government wants us to do. And I think the best people who can do that are veterans because we can op, operate with stress, right?

Gil De Leon: Vet veterans fit that possess unique skill sets and experience that can be valuable to the field of regenerative agriculture. Big skills include, you know, strong work ethic, adaptability, leadership, problem solving, resilience. I mean, veterans can apply skills to help regenerative [00:07:00] agriculture promote sustainability and contribute to food security.

Gil De Leon: Now, let's talk about food security for a second. As a, as a 17 year old, combat veteran security is the big thing for me. Now, if we don't have enough food to grow and produce, what's that say about our agricultural system? It's weak. It's vulnerable, and it can cause, you know, you know, our outside influences to exploit that.

Gil De Leon: So we got to find ways to grow our food systems. So how do we grow our food systems if our land is not collaborating? Easy through regenerative practices. How do we do that? We attract the youth that want to do this and attract veterans that already have the skillsets. We just gotta teach 'em how to spell soil, spell cow.

Gil De Leon: We give 'em the skillsets. And our ranch, the bros, the founders of life under the sun operation region can achieve that. Now, here's the disclaimer. We are new at this. We're amateurs, but we have a lot of experiences in other industries, right? You know, Jason and Josh got experience, extensive experiences in building teams and [00:08:00] businesses, right?

Gil De Leon: I got experience in management and leadership and how to bring teams together just, just as Jason combine those skill sets. And it's easy to teach soil health, right? We can teach as we train. Like I'm learning myself, Jason's learning myself. What, what it, it makes no sense for us to become experts and teach.

Gil De Leon: We can teach as we grow. That's the only way we're gonna move the line of suffocation at the speed that the government wants us to do it. And I think that's how we can achieve this, the strategic goals of the current crisis of agriculture.

Jason Martin: And I think it's an exciting time in some, in some respects, you know anytime, ironically enough.

Jason Martin: We find that these practices are in a emerging market if we think about markets. And so you're in something new. And currently, I can tell you all the markets that deal in regenerative meats don't have enough supply for the demand. They are sold out regularly. The demand is way higher than the current [00:09:00] supply.

Jason Martin: So I think just from a, a standpoint of opportunities and a time when people don't understand these practices very well, so it's a time that you can go and learn very quickly and compete in a very meaningful way. Wilts doing good and creating food security. These things have become very, are becoming more and more increasingly important to people, particularly with the propagation of annuals and their lack of nutrition that they're able to provide, particularly on a global scale.

Jason Martin: All the things that were promised that would happen from these forms of agriculture have not happened in quite the opposite has. And so it's kind of brought us to this crisis, but I think there are many of opportunities there and, and ones that, that offer a better qualitative life. And so really seeking that opportunity for anybody and everybody cuz the need is great enough that there is a place for 'em.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: What it's interesting is you have this perfect market of workforce because there is approximately [00:10:00] 8,000, maybe 9,000 somewhere in that range of service members and, you know, to maybe take 10% of them or 1% of them that would want to do this That were kicked out of the military because they wouldn't get the shot.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Right. And so that seems like that is a perfect opportunity for those, those individuals, if they want to look into this, this is a great way to, to learn about it. Because this isn't, let's say you've never had any farming before ranching, that's fine. You don't need to, you use problem solving ability to figure out what's best for your land.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Not for all lands everywhere, but for your land.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Mm-hmm.

Jason Martin: That's, that's a good point, Sam. That's

Jason Martin: a really good point about that cuz you're, cuz you're right. Really what you're doing is evaluating and a ecosystem and the ways that you're gonna engage to promote it's good, but it's really vital that you're able to observe all of those things.

Jason Martin: So people who are able to and trained to make lots of observations and then strategic moves in light of it to, to, to cause a [00:11:00] desired effect and not undesired effects. To mitigate those as much as possible, which we're talking about military training very specifically to be applied outdoors. They're actually way ahead, to be honest, cuz those are skills that take much longer to hone in.

Jason Martin: You're just applying 'em to a new context.

Gil De Leon: That's right. And he said context right, which is the first principle of soil health. It's context. And once you have a rich, diverse context, you can literally catapult the journey of regeneration. And to Jason's point, he's de attracting seasoned veterans that has a skillset already.

Gil De Leon: And now we, when we change or, or change our mindset to holistic management, man, they're all already can operate in any agriculture position on the first day, you know?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I reached out to you bef before this whole thing, and I asked for some homework. And one book that I read was called Holistic Management, A Common Sense [00:12:00] Revolution to Restore Our Environment by Alan Savory.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And this is the third edition. So he's revamped it a few times. And what's incredible about this is what he's figured out. He's gone down to the molecular level and to the, the space, you know, view as high as you can. And that's the kind of problem solving that's needed for this. So anybody who loves complex problems, this is the field for you.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: You know, like, okay, he's got this this idea that if I have a sheep and I allow it to, to graze on this land for one day, that's one one day of sheep grazing. If I have two sheep on there for one day, that's two days. Okay, well, how do I get that right mix of rest and grazing so I don't get overgrazed?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But then I, I don't over rest either, and I move to the different paddocks so that I can move into the next one. And then the, the ground actually produces more for you next year.

Gil De Leon: That's right. And which is great because now you're talking about observation, right? So now you're not prescriptive, you're not operating typical silos.

Gil De Leon: Now you, you can foster human intelligence, natural intelligence, and lead your [00:13:00] management through observation, right? That's what Alan Saer keeps talking about. Like, we can't be prescriptive on a land that is not prescriptive, right? That's how humans destroyed nature. And that's why we have huge ecological disasters, right?

Gil De Leon: So we gotta collaborate with our land. We gotta respect our land like Alan Savory talks about, and just listen to what they're trying to tell us and just enhance it. And that's what Jason and Martin is all about. And that's why it ties really well to theology, right? Just,

Jason Martin: well, it does. It's, it's talking

Jason Martin: about humans and a what we think about ourselves and our place in this world.

Jason Martin: Now that would be where we start with the eye, right? But the reality is, is we share this world with many creatures and a great and abundant diversity, a diversity that we have. Still then ex and, and we're going through a current sixth grade extinction at a rate that's alarming. I mean, just to be frank, Sam, I, I've come to a [00:14:00] point where I have become awakened to these things in such a way that I can't believe it's not the central thing everyone is talking, acting towards right now.

Jason Martin: Which does make it a time of great urgency in, in many respects. I think there's enough of what is agreed on by scientists and by the evaluation of where we are, that we can surely start a very, very serious agrarian conversation about what it means for us as humans and what it means to come back to a place of interdependence on the natural world.

Jason Martin: And to understand our place, which will oftentimes be a place of limit, a place not of unlimited realization of everything I ever wanted on terms that are given to me in marketing, but a different evaluation of the value of our lives and our place in this world. And what seeking good actually looks like.[00:15:00]

Jason Martin: Where the agrarian conversation centrally comes because righteousness will very much be defined by, you know, terms such as who has the land, is the land providing for everybody who's working that land? And is it providing life and abundance for those who are all a part of this cycle? That that's what the agrarian conversation goes to.

Jason Martin: And those aren't much topics that a normative human four out of five, which the United States lives in a city, has much of a context about, just to be frank. And so there is a need to reinforce these hinterlands who have always provided for the city and the people. And so we're really focusing in on this and taking back that engagement between the land of a region and the people of the region and the exchange that can be had there.

Jason Martin: So, and that's what I mean by there are many more underpinnings and it's expansive when that is your vision. Who is interested [00:16:00] in what and how does it move forward and how can we facilitate, support and uphold it to the good of everyone is the only question any of us should be asking right now.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Right. And you know, I, I have a Christian background and, and I have some Jewish heritage and, you know, often Jews are thought of as great businessmen. They, they're very good at business and, and the reason they're so good at business is because they learn in their religion. Same with the Christian religion, is that when you make another of God's children's life's better.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So whatever skill or service or whatever it is, or whatever product you have that makes someone else's life better, you get rewarded with money. It's money is a spiritual gift, not a physical gift. And what's really interesting is in Hebrew, the word for blood is the same as the word for money. And, and that's probably why the love of money, not money, but the love of money is the root of all evil, because you'll squeeze people to get their blood out of them, to get their money out of them.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But what you're doing is [00:17:00] if you become, let's say, a regenerative agriculturist in your neighborhood or in your, your area, you are now an upstanding citizen who is providing for the basic necessities of people in your area.

Gil De Leon: Yeah. I, I agree. Yeah, go ahead, Jason. The and you, right? And it takes, and if you, if you, the regenerative agriculture movement has been going on for four years, however, it's been going on for generations. But now with this new, you know, marketing and social media, it's, it's not, we just more people we're now, we're doing things that we've been doing, but now it's.

Gil De Leon: We can reach people farther and faster now than we could do 20 years ago. Right. And you can see all this agencies, soil, cata, Alan Savory soil region. So for climate, there's a lot of agencies and entities promoting this because it's going to take that much people to restore our land. I [00:18:00] mean, it took billions of people to destroy a land over generations.

Gil De Leon: It's going to take a lot more people, and we're just a small piece. We're just trying to contribute to the, our land and we're just a small team. We need more. Right. And that's part of our vision as well, to unite independent ranchers and farmers under this umbrella called Life Under the Sun, because we're gonna include everybody, right?

Gil De Leon: It's no elitist here. A as we get funds, we're gonna help. And Jessica can talk about that on life Under the Sun, but it's powerful.

Jason Martin: Because the reality is, is that our food costs are gonna go up extremely. Be aware of that. That's a fact. Matter of fact, we currently play less for our food than probably any human in the history of the world. And that has come at a great cost. And

Jason Martin: that's a fact. Go look 'em up. We, we pay and work less for our food than any heid that's ever existed. It's easy and the quality of that food has been diminished. But I'm, I'm gonna say this. In [00:19:00] order to do that, you have to go to a particular scale that now takes food production outta the hands of the people and in the hands of few because they are at a scale that can't be competed with.

Jason Martin: And that scale is failing. We've, we've realized that there are limits to that scale, and the limits are the natural resources of this earth. There are limits and it's failed, and so it has to go the other way. Food production has to come back into the hands of the regions that are consuming those foods, and we have to close loops, waste loops that come back and work into building soil and compost under greater fertility, under greater abundance, under gr to under greater sustainability of the amount of life that can be provided for off of those lands closing.

Jason Martin: These loops become vital to us. You know, currently we throw away [00:20:00] half the. For us half. And it's so cheap that it's not even valuable to us. We will just throw it away with a world that's dying of starvation. It's, it's the whole concept. We have to change those categories.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So I wanna do devil's advocate Real, go ahead, Gil.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Sorry. I'll,

Gil De Leon: I'll come back to No, you can go. I love playing devil's advocate. Let's do it.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Okay, so I'm gonna do devil's advocate here. I know the answer. And this is not how, I think a disclaimer, this is not how I think, but, but I've heard that cow farts are destroying the environment. What about carbon production?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And you're laughing. And, and I wanna preface this with back when I was was it 12 to 15? I was stationed in Georgia and I went to White Oaks Farms. Oh man. That grass fed beef, if you have an opportunity, taste grass-fed. Grass-finished beef, cuz it is Oh, it's so much better. It's, it's what beef should taste like, but they're, they're fields.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Were significantly, like [00:21:00] visually more green than when the fence end. And just on the other side, they, they were the, yeah, you know, the proverbial greener on the other side. It was significantly greener. And so I say that too, kind of preface that question.

Gil De Leon: Yeah. So fun note, I've been to Woo Harris and he is the real deal.

Gil De Leon: I was there for a week as part of my, you know, my tour visiting nationally recognized ranches. And there's a lot of, there's a lot of known region leaders, right? I mean, we can name 'em all right? You know, ranch later, Alejandro Gabe Brown, Dr. Allen Williams, you know, Alan Savory. But that man Will Harris is the real deal.

Gil De Leon: Now he loves, when he pulled me to the side and grabbed me, he was like, Gil, teaming of life is key. Now, I'm not a scientist, I'm not a doctor. I can't explain the data of cow farts. To your point. However, I can say with conviction regards, I don't know the data. That power farts in manure is not destroying the world.

Gil De Leon: Now, if you look at the data [00:22:00] of manure, it's all digestible grass already. And then when dumb be, when dumb beetles come, because now you fostering an environment of life underneath our feet, you're going introduce more insects, more, more beetles gonna come, more dumb bets gonna grab that patty, roll it up, bring it to the ground, create more life, bring more worms, bring everything.

Gil De Leon: It's just dump beetles, create a habitat for souls, for worms, for cattle. It's, it's, it's it's own clues. It's a full, full closed loop system and all that, because they have more forge. To your point, will, Harry has a lot of green grass right now. Think about how much each grass blade is capturing solar and attracting carbon.

Gil De Leon: Right? And those roots are bringing, are converting those polar sensors, those those solar energy into liquid carbon that feeds the light from the soil. That light from the soil go ahead and return and feeds the cattle. So I think to your point, I know this, this is not what you believe in, but there's more, there's [00:23:00] way more positives of cal farts and maneuver on the ground versus what most animal activists say.

Gil De Leon: Right? And, and, and all, all it comes to is education, education, education. But I'm here to stay and stand the people that realize that livestock is a solution to climate change.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And if anybody has any question about this, I encourage the listener to the viewer to go check out the book. Sacred Cow. I know Rob Wolf is one of the authors on it.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I can't remember the main author, but in there he does this thought experiment to where you can clearly see how humans would not be alive on this planet, and most plants would not be alive on this planet if there were not ruminant animals, of which cows are one of the main source of food for Americans.

Gil De Leon: I agree. I mean, all back in biblical times, right? You know, Jesus. Told us that we had to be, we had to have authority over our animals and be stewards of our land. Now, what does authority of our animals mean? Is protect, make 'em live. But it's for us to, [00:24:00] in spiritual context, to feed, to make a living off the animals we have authority over.

Gil De Leon: Right. We use 'em as a tools if resource restore our land, but they also, they provide nutrition for our humans. Right? It's, it's, it's a, it's a closed loop system where we're meant and designed to eat beef, to eat meat, if that makes sense.

Jason Martin: Well, I'd, I'd say from a theological standpoint, that certainly wasn't the original.

Jason Martin: We were, we were definitely vegetarians throughout Genesis. It was actually with the NOIC covenant that, by the way, a covenant not just made with Noah, but made with

Jason Martin: all the creatures of the world showing that there are also shares of that covenant. But that's when the eating of meat came in. Presumably in a much more curd state. So, you know, e even understanding the, the eating of meat those animals exist to themselves and are good and valuable in and of themselves, and that's why we want the highest [00:25:00] possible care for them. And there's for those of us who love them dearly, and I can tell you that we all do and enjoy communion with them regularly.

Jason Martin: Not when we're eating them, when we're feeding them and caring for them and trying to create good environments for them to exist in the most natural environments for them to exist in. And then we also eat them and and, and celebrate that and wanna make best use of that and to treat that sacred, not common, not something we would throw away but something that is special.

Gil De Leon: And Sam, to your point, like, so we have about a little over a hundred sheep, you know dopers, cananas, you know, SanCor mixed, and they're thriving in our environment. And at the end of the day, Jason and I and Josh, we love spending time with our animals, making that connection, even though we're using this animals to steward our land, right?

Gil De Leon: To create a habitat, to restore our land, but also to eat them. [00:26:00] But during that time, from, you know, from lamb, from birth till the day we eating, we're spending time with them, we we're building con and that connection with them, it's this whole like interconnectness and it's, it's therapeutic. And which I argue that the hardest surface to regenerate is our mines, not our soils.

Gil De Leon: Now, when we interact with our animals, it starts regenerating our mines. It's therapeutic. It's, it's a huge deal. That's why we need to bring veterans into agriculture. It's, yes, it's about the soils. It's also about the life of the sun, the humans, our minds, and which is the hardest service to regenerate.

Gil De Leon: But once we collaborate, man, stress goes away. It's therapeutic. It's just, it's spiritual

Jason Martin: and, and you build up, you bring up a great point. Guilt too. Sam, sorry, did I cut you off there?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, I just wanna try and get this in before we get to, cuz there's so many great paths that we can go from here. That's right.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: What I wanted to say is also a biblical point is cuz I think the [00:27:00] Bible points towards either keto or carnivore. And if you look at Kain and Abel, so if you're, let's say 10,000 or however many years ago and God asked you to sacrifice and you burn fat, and let's say you're eating carnivore and 70, 70, 70 5% of your intake is saturated fat, animal fat, and you're burning the fat, well that's a true sacrifice.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: You're giving up tomorrow's food saying, I trust you, God, to provide. And then you've got cane over here who. His raising wheat and vegetables, which he shouldn't be doing because it's not a food source. And he burns it and it's unacceptable in God's sight. And then you, you compare and contrast that next to this study that came out in April of 2020, and it said that those that eat no meat have more behavioral health issues than those that eat meat.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And then we look at Kane's next behavior. What does he do? He gets into a murderous rage and kills his brother. That seems like it's a pretty significant behavioral health issue.

Jason Martin: Yeah. I, I, I'm with you there. I'm not [00:28:00] sure if I draw, necessarily draw that theology off

Jason Martin: of there to that degree, but but there's, I anybody else does. This is my thoughts. Yeah, there's. No, I, I totally get it. And you know, I think there is actually a lot for us there in, in Genesis for us to understand what is ours and what our place actually is and, and what that looks like. And you know, Gil was bringing up a point I just wanted to go off of our entire wisdom tradition, and I'm referring to anybody who shares

Jason Martin: some or part of the books of the Pentateuch, as a basis for their sacred document. So that's a very large part of the entire population of the world, by the way. So it definitely should be very much ingrained into our theology, but our wisdom traditions were very much rooted in creation, in the order of creation. And actually, Gil talked about being with animals. You know, there's one group referred to in the scripture, and that is, [00:29:00] The land animals, the humans and their domesticated animals are always considered one group.

Jason Martin: The humans are not their separate group. It's the humans and their animals, and then it's the wild animals, which are all the animals outside of the domesticated animals and the humans. And these are references that were common in those times that you'll be seen referenced throughout, but much of our wisdom, as Solomon would say, that screams from the streets are the observance of the order of the natural world in which we exist, and the aligning of ourselves to that, the promoting of that, and the utilization of that unto greater.

Jason Martin: Productivity for us. But at the end of the day, the work that we've been given as humans in the declarations of the design of this current cosmos and everything in it is that we work the soil and care for the animals, which by the way, are the base principles of regenerative ranching and [00:30:00] agriculture. We focus on the soil and working it by caring for animals and utilizing them in the working of it, and by our technologies in agriculture, which have to do with irrigation primarily.

Jason Martin: So you know, these are the things that as an animal in the natural world, that is a human, these are the things that are for us. And so the agrarian conversation is always relevant. And when you have isolationism from cities in a modern world, it's all the more relevant because it's not a conversation we have as much anymore or even have much context for.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It just hit me that what you're saying is actually taking us back to Adam's original charge, care for the land.

Jason Martin: Yes, yes. This was the vision of a human in the creative world and the thing that they concerned themself and the way, and to us, we'd look at it and go, well, that's a mighty humble existence.

Jason Martin: Well, we [00:31:00] have tread a very hubris, a high hubris path for ourselves unto the destruction of the earth. So I think it's the, our only path is one through a more humble existence. Whereas in the irony of it quite might frankly be that in losing the life we think gives us something. Trust me, I've attained it on several levels and it doesn't the thing that we think gives us life necessarily does it.

Jason Martin: And in fact, losing it unto the care for all of creation, the world and one another. So we find it.

Gil De Leon: It's, it's powerful. Like the, the, the movement of regener agriculture is actually going back towards the Garden of Eden. You know, it's just, it's just, it's just powerful.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Mm-hmm. Hey, you mentioned a few things that I wanna make sure I, that I understand.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: You had mentioned people need to be able to spell soil and pal.

Gil De Leon: Mm-hmm. All right, so take me for [00:32:00] example, right? A guy with little over 17 years of experience, right. At any of the day, I don't know what I don't know. I can talk military combat operations all day on a map and maneuver troops, but if I'm gonna enter a new profession and which is regener our culture, I gotta learn that culture, that industry, and that industry is how to spell power, how move and how to soil.

Gil De Leon: And I think it's great because it's, that's what veterans fit. If I can maneuver livestock, I can maneuver cattle and it's powerful, right? But, We have, it's a culture shift. We have to like, break down the blueprint of our mind and, and relearn everything. And to include the, the conventional farmers, right?

Gil De Leon: I mean, they have a lot of value to this world, man. Without them we wouldn't be, or they have a lot of skills they can transfer. But even guys, fifth, sixth generation farmers and ranchers gotta re, gotta relearn because they're in the business of growing meat, not in the business of growing grass. They were not in the business of snowing land.

Gil De Leon: So now they gotta change the vernacular, the [00:33:00] mindset, and how to see things, right? Even fifth, six generation farmers has to change and know how to spell the word soil. And that's what I mean by that. And guys like me who got, who got limited experience in agriculture, I have to start with what's common, which is the ground, right?

Gil De Leon: Because if you can make the ground collaborate and increase production, It will benefit everything above the ground, right? It starts with the soil. So what I mean by, what I mean by spilling soil is everything about soil, everything. The signs, the data, the what it takes to restore it. Everything. And I think our veterans need to start off with that first before they even touch animals, before they even start building fences, before they even learn how to drive a tractor.

Gil De Leon: It's soil. Without soil, you can't do anything else. Once they get the concept of the, you know, the six principles, so health, the three adaptive stewardship rules and understand the four ecosystem processes. Once they understand that and what it takes, then remove a, now [00:34:00] we're gonna teach you how these animals can restore land at a rate that no one or at a speed that we won.

Gil De Leon: Speed. Right? That's what I mean by that. Did I answer your question,

Gil De Leon: Sam?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Oh yeah. That's great. I love it. This is good stuff.

Jason Martin: When we have a time where we have some of the best and brightest and. The demand has not yet overcome 'em completely. So really it's a time when people getting in right now can be taught by some of the best in the world because they're making themselves available right now.

Jason Martin: So, I mean, I, I, I've, I've had to get educations for all kinds of things, and they're very expensive. I can tell you the education you can get in this industry is far more valuable and comes at far less a cost. So I can't imagine something more relevant for our time to want to go, go towards and to master because they would be among the few that, that have and are mastering it, [00:35:00] and it will become all the more and more vital to our lives and our community.

Jason Martin: So it, it's a very good direction to go to it anyway. And it is therapeutic. It is, it does help us come to terms, you know, and even dealing with an earth when we're out there with the sheep. I'll just give you an example. Very practical. We watch the sheep and it takes 'em a long time to become comfortable with us and we don't make harsh moves around them and we don't press ourselves upon 'em because our coming to interact with them is as much dependent on them.

Jason Martin: Their willingness and their desire to, as it is on us, if we're gonna connect in that way. Now, once you do, trust starts to be gained and we start to understand each other even though we're a very different species and we start to understand what the other requires and how best to go along with the other, that mutual benefits being dry form, we might eat them, but I'm just gonna tell you this, a lamb would not be long for the world outside the [00:36:00] protection of humans.

Jason Martin: Just so you're aware. In the world of ecology, it is a mutual relationship. It is not one way. The land would not exist at all without the humans that protected it. Just so you know. They would not, none, most, none

Jason Martin: of those domesticated animals would exist much without the care of

Jason Martin: humans. They're not suited to it.

Jason Martin: So there is an exchange there and it's a meaningful exchange. But therein, you know what we learn? We learn how better we can engage with humans, with any species, being more patient to understand and to see, and to hear, and to know that it might be way more complex than we think, and maybe in terms that we each don't see.

Jason Martin: And maybe we would bear along much more way, maybe we would ask more questions. Maybe we wouldn't press ourselves in such a way as to offend and push away, but instead we would open a conversation that drew people in To me, those are the places that, the [00:37:00] things that have to happen on the level that it has to happen within our communities and in our world.

Jason Martin: Those are the terms we can learn by right now from our engagement of other animals. They're part of the wisdom tradition that gives back to us, and it's in the experience of these things. So we think this is very vital. I think it's gonna be, it'll be huge as we've already seen. It's huge for returning veterans and for.

Jason Martin: All kinds of help, because I'm gonna say this, I have deep compassion for veterans and what they've been through. I've been, I was a pastor for 10 years. I know what trauma on, on various levels actually do to people. And I've had to, I've been a, a student of it more than someone who's experienced personally by listening a lot and trying to understand.

Jason Martin: And I'm gonna tell you this, we live in a world traumatized and filled with P T S D from every level [00:38:00] that you can even imagine. It is rampant. It's a pandemic. And we have the need to reconnect with our natural world, whereby we can find some kind of reconciliation to be able to move forward on terms that are a little different and probably a lot more helpful.

Gil De Leon: I agree. Like not only that we're restoring our soils, but we, we, we are regenerating the minds of our youth and veterans to include seasoned agricultural ranches and farmers. Cause the agriculture also has one of the highest suicide rates, in fact, probably above military, right? Because they operate in our steering environments, financial stress, and they depend on weather.

Gil De Leon: The, the circumstances and the stress are different, but the, the, but the outcome is the same. Seasoned ranchers are farmers, high suicide rate, like the military. And I think that can be solved through Regeneron agriculture, right? Through regenerating soils. And, and you know, Jason talked about a couple things, right?

Gil De Leon: We kind of bounced around the top [00:39:00] AG issues, right? And I'll just name a couple, but I think there's a couple top top Ag issues that we can solve. And to be clear, Sam, we can't solve all this. We can only contribute and make an impact. Slowly, right? It's a marathon, right? I just wanna be clear on that. We don't get the answers to everything.

Gil De Leon: However, here are the top ag issues. I think we have one, climate change, two, food security, three, technology in innovation. Four, the aging former crisis, and five placement. So I'm gonna focus on aging, former crisis an aging former crisis. You know, a significant challenge for agriculture sector because, you know, back in the day, or still now, there's a stigma where people don't, should not enter agriculture because they're for idiots.

Gil De Leon: People should join the military because they're idiots. It's, it's, Hey, no, go to college. But now just a shift, right? People are starting to find ways that the, the, the, the path to success is not college anymore, right? There's other [00:40:00] ways to success. And I think our culture is the number one way to serve our country, and it's noble.

Gil De Leon: Right. And the way we can fix the aging form crisis, I think we got a solution for that. Because as we train veterans, we can place them in this ranches and farms that already have already created demand signal of, Hey, I need help here. I'm 70 years old. I need somebody to run my ranch. Great. Let us train this veteran.

Gil De Leon: They got management experience of ready. We'll teach 'em us, we'll teach 'em the regenerative practices and then we'll send 'em to you. And they come with a full, comprehensive package from our ranch, our, our vision, right? And another crisis is, you know, sustainable agriculture. Right? You know, the agriculture sector is pressure to adopt more sustainable practices that reduce environmental impacts, preserve natural resources, and ensure long-term viability.

Gil De Leon: This includes promoting soil health and reducing chemical input. Weak cans be a part of the solution. We can't solve it [00:41:00] completely, but. Our role, our vision is as we expand, as we become established, as we become profitable, we buy other ranches and extend that way as well. And we'll buy ranches type to municipalities.

Gil De Leon: And obviously it's, it's, it's a marathon, not a sprint. But our goal is to expand slowly and, and just place youth and veterans into this roles to help move the line and certification.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I think what's amazing is we're on this precipice of, you know, and don't take my word for it, do your own research. I'm not a financial investor, advisor, blah, blah, blah.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: We're, it seems like we're on the precipice of a significant market reset. I'm saying it that way, most people who knows what that means? It's, it's gonna get ugly and it's gonna get ugly fast. And if you have some resources available, maybe not in cash, maybe in some other type of, of way to preserve it through that significant reset.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Think 1929 there may be a lot of farms available for purchase and, [00:42:00] and for the, the prior warriors out there. Like, there's probably a reason why San Sue said it's better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a warrior, probably. Because once you've seen things and you've done things, you, you begin to gravitate back to nature, back to the garden to help the mind.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And, and this is a good way to do that, but you're also continuing that fight because who wins the war? The guy who has the most calories or who's in charge of the calories, cuz that's what war is. It's a war of calories. When you control all the calories, the other side is going to lose no matter what the long game the other side loses.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And this is a perfect way for those warriors to continue that fight and, and teach their children how to be warriors. But in it's maybe slightly different way, battling the elements and fighting with the sheep, but, but being that, that upstanding citizen in the, in the neighborhood that is able to help feed people.

Gil De Leon: Mm-hmm. No, [00:43:00] I agree. I agree man. I love your perspective.

Jason Martin: I think there are significant real estate opportunities that are coming up. You know, particularly with the instability of, of markets and outlooks, just being

Jason Martin: honest not only are they going to increase greatly in value, particularly as our natural

Jason Martin: resources can continue to diminish.

Jason Martin: And they will, there, there is a higher demand now for re regenerated things and, and the lands have soil, so it's of a much greater value. So it's not just to buy the land, but it's to buy the land and convert it where it has, cuz. Cascading and compounding results unto increasing fruitfulness and sustainability.

Jason Martin: So I think that also just as a personal and communal fu food security, it makes a lot of sense. So, you know, from a long-term investment standpoint, I think it's probably the [00:44:00] safest and also probably also the most profitable long-term investment. That,

Jason Martin: Makes a lot of sense right now, at least as a great hedge.

Jason Martin: So, you know, for us, we're looking to bring people into this industry. We're looking to help people who own lots of land to regenerate that land, to, to render those services, by the way, which is utilizing animals to regenerate soil. Whereby simultaneously creating enough supply to be able to actually supply a meaningful, consistent market.

Jason Martin: So I think there are lots of opportunities on the way we think about our lands, and with those few, unfortunately few landholders that there are re relational to our population that's a very small constituency and we will see if their intentions are good for the people of the lands, [00:45:00] of which they and myself included, owns large amounts of relative to the rest of population. This is where, in scriptural terms, righteousness has very much been defined. It's been defined by those who have choices and the choices that made for those who do not have choices and the choice to regenerate land and to provide Food and also even places. We have eco retreats in our cards for, to some of the things that we're doing because we believe that the reconnection with the natural world and farms that are abundantly diverse is very vital for humanity. And at the end of the day, the ec, the ecology of humans is, is very much responsible for the mass destruction that is ensued. And because we've almost made ourselves one of the few remaining species and certainly the most plentiful on the entire earth I think it falls to us if we've had the authority to exercise such [00:46:00] things. I think also the responsibility to restore the

Jason Martin: same falls to us also.

Gil De Leon: So, Sam, are you overwhelmed by listening to us already?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: No, I'm, I'm charged. I'm, I'm stoked. I'm excited. I hope other people see the opportunity that we are on the precipice of go think about it, talk about it with your spouse. Pray about it. See if, find land and being that, that citizen in your neighborhood, in your community, that is able to provide caloric density and, and nutritious food.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Remember, because with, with the carnivore model, the only food that is the most nutritious food, the only food that, that has, everything that a human needs is a ruminant animal, which is just mind blowing. That that's, if I had to eat only one thing for the rest of my life, I, if I ate a ruminant animal from nose to to tail.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I would never have to take a supplement for the rest of my life. I have [00:47:00] everything in there that I would never have to eat a plant. There's nothing in a plant that a human needs. There's actually anti-nutrients, poisons, and toxins and all sorts of bad things in plants. That's why God gave us these, these walking little factories that make edible food for us that can digest that because their digestive tract is so different than ours.

Jason Martin: And I would say an animal that had had fed on the great diversity of forage. It was intended to and of perennials not on a mono crop, and definitely not living out the end of its days in a lot in its own feces being kept alive by antibiotics. Otherwise, for all intensive cases it would be dead because of mass malnutrition.

Jason Martin: That kind of meat actually could not do that for you Sam. It would have to be the kind of meat of that animal in its natural environment whereby, I don't know if you're aware, beef that's done regeneratively well has more omega three s than wild caught salmon. [00:48:00] Just for example we didn't even know beef had omega three s.

Jason Martin: If they were, it was cause they've been fed on corn and because of the way they're handled in unnatural ways that's both cruel to the animal and. It robs the end user too, of the great nutrients that it could be. So, you know, and, and why? So that we can produce it on scale at such a cheap level that no one else could commute, could, could possibly compete outside of our ultimate control which is what situation it creates.

Jason Martin: And once again, that's where we as a people to be able to be ready for that need to be prepared to allot much more of our budget towards our food. Which we have, we have the space in our budgets generally. And some don't. And you know, there needs to be programs and opportunities for those also to gain access to nutrient [00:49:00] rich food.

Jason Martin: It's not something that should only be for the elite. But I can tell you this, in our enterprises, we are focusing on the elite who can pay for it right now and fund those things. But our intentions and our actions are always to make the farmer and the ranch rancher a proper beneficiary of the. And to cut middlemen out and to cut mass profits at the top out because we believe food is such a thing that mass that doesn't really allow for mass profit profits at the top of it.

Jason Martin: There's too much of our life right, wrapped up into it, and there's way too much, right, taken as to what we feel like we can do to turn a profit for food under the guise of to save the world. Those have not worked out so well. And I would question on the level of money that was spent and what it was to the intent of it in the first place, at least on some level.

Jason Martin: So, you know, I think for [00:50:00] us as people, this is a great revolution that does at the very beginning start to deal with our choices and understanding the weight of those choices and the weight they are for the world that our children and our grandchildren are gonna grow up in. I think when we consider 'em on those terms, it's a small price to pay when we know that the increase in that budget is going to the good of the farmers and ranchers producing this and not in an exorbitant way, and that it's also not going in an exorbitant way to someone else who financed the whole thing with mass equipment and destructive processes.

Jason Martin: To do it in one place in the world and supply the entire world at great cost and peril. That's a crazy model, by the way, but from people in your region that are deeply committed to you and that you go and visit and might know personally and are very connected to. I think if that's what we know our money is going to and it's enriching our lives, we start [00:51:00] thinking differently about the value of our food.

Jason Martin: Add to it, 70% more nutrient density, which you have to start thinking of your food in much smaller portions at that time, and to understand the value you're actually getting there. You know, food is done by weight and all genetics by making it as big as we can. So we can show a prosper gram or a Prosper ounce or a prosper pound.

Jason Martin: We need a. Per nutrient particulate, probably because at the end of the day, that is the, that is measuring the true value, the diversity of that and the density of those nutrients is the true value there. The, the over and abundant, the cascading compounding value attaches to the community. When we reconnect that loop,

Gil De Leon: it, it's, that's powerful.

Gil De Leon: Sam, I can tell you light bulb went on when Jason said that grass fed, grass finished beef has more omega three s than conventional beef. It's, it's powerful and it has more L a [00:52:00] L a, which is a top of omega than salmon emphatic fish, which helps with, you know, heart disease and prevention. And when he said that, I can tell you light went off.

Gil De Leon: It's like, cuz it's that powerful if it's truly grass fed and, and grass finished. But you're right. It starts, it's, it is, it's, it's, it's healing in all, in all in all in all flames.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I do wanna throw a little caveat in there. And I encourage a listener, go listen to or read sacred Cow. Rob Wolf is one of the authors in there, and, and he started the, the book with the preface that Grassfed Gran Grass finished is the best and it is better than grain finished or grain-fed, grain finished.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But that difference is so minimal that he says in the book, he'd rather just people eat meat than eat pretty much anything else. And I, I agree with that wholeheartedly. Yeah. Grass finished. Grass fed is better by far. It's better, but that difference is so minimal that I'd rather people eat beef than eat pretty much everything else.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Anything else in the, in the big box store?

Jason Martin: I gotta make a distinction though there, Sam. Cause there [00:53:00] certainly are some. Now when we talk about regenerative grass fed, you're talking ave about some very specific practices and I'd like to make a distinction between grass fed and regenerative grass fed.

Jason Martin: Grass fed still uses these practices of releasing animals on large swaths where they're free to go and roam and select what they eat. And so we have to use antibiotics, we have to do all these things. What we're trying to do, and Alan Savor, you mentioned, you know, he really was a major developer of these things, but what we're trying to do is mimic natural worlds in which they existed, where predators would've given them pressure.

Jason Martin: And so it would've looked more like mob grazing. Now I'll tell you what happens when you mob graze, you actually. Force the animal. The animal through competition is forced to eat a greater diversity of all of the vegetation. And in fact, you're planting perennials and [00:54:00] creating a very diverse mix of them.

Jason Martin: And they're only eating at the time when that plant, because you're controlling it when that plant gets all of its nutrients up. And the very ends is right when you're releasing them to go eat. And they only take the top. So they're getting massive, very rich, dense, full of nutrient nutrition, which doing grass fed quote is not the same thing at all.

Jason Martin: And I would suspect that if you compared grass-fed in that term to lot fed, it probably would be close. However, if you got regenerative beef and compared it, it would be radically different. It was, I've never heard that comparison. And this, it's hard to make these distinctions because there's so much, all, every word we try to use becomes a marketing word to get people to buy more.

Jason Martin: And if it's popular, we make it a marketing word which makes it no longer relevant, is a word of real distinction. We live in a very difficult time when it comes to nomenclature [00:55:00] and assigning meaning to the signs that we're using for it are words, you know? And so it, it, it's a difficult time to understand what we are. And you've mentioned will Harris's

Jason Martin: place. That's what my family eats, so that, that's what we eat is Wild Oak Farms. And, and, and it's delicious until we're producing. That's actually delicious enough for me to eat our own. We will be eating Will Harris's, but we support others too. You know, there's the the Double P Ranch in, in Oklahoma as well.

Jason Martin: And So Eric and Kim Pinner. And so, you know, we, we want to support all of those be because the same is true for theirs. High nutrient density. They might not be as far down the road. They're certainly exercising all of those principles in a very real way. So, you know, just to make the distinction, because there definitely is one between those.

Jason Martin: Yeah. And in taste, I'll, I'll add to that too. Grass fed, that's not regenerative. Very tough and not near as [00:56:00] flavorful. And, and even the regenerative meat will be a little tougher. They're not fating it on corn, you know, but you, you come to eat it differently. When we're eating a steak, as I tell my wife, you know how to cut steak.

Jason Martin: How do you cut a brisket against the grain? Well, when you're eating regenerative meat, you cut thin strips against the grain. Why? Because it's not really chewy anymore, because you've already broken it down by the direction that you cut. And so we as humans have to become a little more crafty than what McDonald's might require of us in the consumption of our food. We'll actually have to understand it and the best way, best way to wield tools, even in consuming it.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. One thing I was really impressed with White Oaks Farms is I went there, this is maybe somewhere between 12 and 13, and they just took us on a tour. Like they just took us where they slaughtered, they took us in where they were hanging the meat. And it's like they didn't know us from Adam. They didn't know we were not, you know, like covertly recording things to blast, but they were just such genuine, honest [00:57:00] people and that just impre and, and clean man.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: They're where they slaughtered and the hung the meat. It was so clean that we could just show up anytime and they, they just, Hey, look around. This is what we do. And I'm not saying they're gonna do that today. Don't expect that today. Today is a different world than, than back then. But it's just, it.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: They were good wholesome people. Gil, sorry they

Gil De Leon: all No, no, you're good. They were all inclusive people. I mean, I was even offered a job opportunity to be over there. That's how inclusive they are. They've, we, we, I, they gave me a tour on the second day. Gil called me. I want a job. I got a job for you.

Gil De Leon: That's how they are. And that's what Jason and Josh trying mimic is to be all inclusive, right? Because we're not hiring for skill. We are hiring, we are hiring for enthusiasm and burns, the desire to restore our land, right? And how to connect with people. We can train skill later. Josh and I, Jason and I, Hey, you know how Build fence, who cares about Liberty passion?

Gil De Leon: I can teach you how to build a fence. And this high spell saw, by the way, you know, region, [00:58:00] it's, that's easy. It's hard to get people that have the work ethic, that know how to operate in the team. That's hard. And that's, that's a, a tangible, it's not found on a report card or a resume. And if you focus on resumes or black and white sounds good on paper, you, and then day two, when you know, Stuff hits the fan.

Gil De Leon: They, they don't, they don't know how to operate. They don't know how to rely on their teammates. They, they, they, they, they lose enthusiasm. They get stressed out. Like, you're not the guy because that means you never had conviction in restoring our land. Those are the people we're looking for. And Will Harris, to your point, that's why he loves, he loves being all inclusive because he's, he is always assessing people.

Gil De Leon: He is always assessing people because he wants to bright people on the team. And that's what we're about too, you know? So. Well, one of the questions, you guys, Sam, it looks like if we gave a lot, hopefully not overwhelmed, because, you know, our team thrives on the three Ds dynamic, divergent and diverse.

Gil De Leon: And by the way, one of the soil health principles [00:59:00] is diversity. Diversity in livestock, diversity code crops. But we have diversity in our teammates and we can, we probably will scare most people because we operate in a temple that is too fast. But we have a dynamic and d diverse team and it, it took a lot when I first met these two individuals.

Gil De Leon: They're very dynamic. Very diverse. I'll have, I'll have to walk away a little bit and do a clarity break mental breaks, like, all right, what just happened here? And you realize they're just too passionate, they're too dynamic, and they've wanna restore out of rate that makes most people uncomfortable.

Gil De Leon: So you better, you better get on the train or get off the train because we're going towards direction and we're going do it. We're gonna regenerate America in the minds of our youth and veterans, and it's great. And they're very, and you can get, I was never addicted to people, but I'm addicted to Josh and Jason to the team.

Gil De Leon: It's, it's weird. It's a weird thing to say, but it's true. And I'm not saying that because, you know, he's watching me in assess me, but I'm, I'm speaking the truth here. And that's what we need, right? It's connecting with people, you know, I'm having high emotional [01:00:00] intelligence and bringing people together to one cause, right.

Gil De Leon: That's why I hate we have so many different churches. It's not us and them. It's one. And it's, that's what our team is about. We're one.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Do both of y'all have a few minutes? Cause I do have a question that I heard Gil mentioned before, but I want him to say y'all have a few minutes.

Gil De Leon: I have one time brother.

Gil De Leon: I'm busy. We're on your show.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Okay. Well, cause I wanna be respectful of your time. I know y'all are busy, man. You had mentioned that, that there was a rancher somewhere that changed the rain patterns on his land. Can you talk about that a bit?

Gil De Leon: Oh yes. That's like, man, wow. So exciting. Jason might wanna do this too because anybody, anytime we get the opportunity talk about this guy, we're all about it.

Gil De Leon: I'll talk about lit about it.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Much land

Gil De Leon: he's in, he lives in Texas, but his is in the Chihuahua desert. Right. And he's a known leader. And in fact he's about to be in the second kiss at ground documentary because he was, he was able to convert deserted land into grassland [01:01:00] with less than 6% rain throughout the year.

Gil De Leon: So he had to manage his land based on how much rainfall he's going to get, get in a collected timeframe. So think how, think about how hard that is, and think about how hard to lead a team through that. When most of his ranchers like, no, we're gonna do it this way. We're gonna add more water, more hay. He's like, no, this is where we're gonna do it.

Gil De Leon: He was able to convert deserted land. It's a grassland just by focusing on the soil, right? And using his horses, donkeys, and goats to do that. It's crazy. Now he has 30,000 acres. It does take massive land to change the microclimate. Does that make sense? Like he has millions of acres around his ranch that when you see him teach, You can see rainfall coming on his land alone.

Gil De Leon: It's because he was able to change and affect the micro. Now obviously that's easier said and done. It takes over a decade. It took a long time, but he was patient and he had conviction on his path. And now when he's, [01:02:00] see, when people see that, they realize, oh man, that's why he's traveling all around the world.

Gil De Leon: And in fact, he's coming to our rancher in M May to want to educate us more again. But Jason, anything you wanted add?

Jason Martin: Yeah, what he, what he is really done is he has closed the loop on the water. So plants transpire water, which goes up and comes down again in rain. And so what he's doing is he's created an environment with maximal transpiration compared to all the other areas.

Jason Martin: And so he's starting to close a loop of the water cycle and these are the cycles that savory that all of us are trying to close. So energy cycle with the sun. How do we utilize and close that cycle as much as possible without mining? And I'm not making any of those things in and of, there is nothing in and of themselves that are evil or whatever else.

Jason Martin: So don't ever misunderstand what I say as that or anything political, cuz none

Jason Martin: of it is, it's all about [01:03:00] these particular things and the validatable facts that

Jason Martin: we're actually talking about. It should be political, but it should be political because it should matter so much, not because of particular things that it might do here, there, or the other place. It should be critical because it's central and it's vital. That's why.

Jason Martin: And, and for no other reason. So, but yeah, the yeah, a Alejandro has done something very special, and he's one of our heroes. You know, for us it's establishing of new heroes. He's one of our heroes, will Harris is one of our heroes.

Jason Martin: We look at them as human beings and go, wow. What an amazing accomplishment that that is for, for sustainability for generations to come. What an extraordinary accomplishment.

Gil De Leon: It is. It, it's, it's a, it's huge. And Alejandro, when he speaks in any engagement, he said the first priority, obviously there's a lot of focuses, but his first priority is to fix the water cycle.

Gil De Leon: Back to Jason's point, that's all Alejandro preaches. Like, there's so many things we can do to fix our earth, [01:04:00] but we gotta focus on first is to restore the water cycle. Cause that's, that's what starts for generating soils.

Jason Martin: And then it's the mineral cycle and that's the places where we want all the waste, we want all the biology because it needs to not go into landfills and waste, it needs to go back into producing for us. And the community cycle. And that's, those are, those are things that we're approaching and, you know, for us, experiences and dynamic on our team. You know, my brother and I have. Decade or more experience in community dynamics, having been pastors and, and functioned with communities and community institutions and outreaches and all kinds of stuff. And, and so there's just place for so much dynamic to come because really it's a holistic move at the end of the day, we're, we need to change the ecology of humans and that will be done holistically as well.

Gil De Leon: That's right. And as you can tell Jason, to be clear, we sound like professionals here, but we're, but we're, we're, we're not, we're amateurs, right?

Gil De Leon: But we got, we got enthusiasm, we got [01:05:00] drive, and we got, we do got a team that can pull this off, right? That any day all you need is convention, conviction and belief. You'll need to be a professional rancher to get this job done. I think our belief system will get us there. Our team will get us there.

Gil De Leon: We're just gonna surround ourselves with the right players needed to move the. Football forward. Just to make that clear. Cause we still got a lot to learn. And you know, Jason always says even though we might be experts in our particular industries, we'll all, we'll always be amateurs in agriculture because it's, it's, it's learning.

Gil De Leon: We don't, we don't really understand what's underneath of soil. There's scientists that don't even understand how many microorganisms are there. We'll never understand. So therefore, we'll ne we'll always be amateurs. Just to make that clear, we're learning here, we're starting from a blank canvas. So when people listen to this podcast, we are hungry, we are young ranchers in agriculture, but we have the drive to move us forward.

Gil De Leon: So come join us, team, come help us, support us. Re-share our story. Cause that's what it takes. If you want to be, if you want to be a part of a [01:06:00] unified and concerted team, we're the team.

Jason Martin: And be a part of the vision. Listen, we are not an organization who has any concern whatsoever about our position in it or anything like that.

Jason Martin: At the end of the day, we want the smartest people, the sh most talented people, and we want to help them flourish well beyond any place we are. I won't be able to see and realize our mission in my lifetime. I'm quite content and grateful just to be a part of it. And I remind Gil and all of us all the time when we're standing out in the field, don't forget what the reward is. And that's just to get to do it. That is the reward to get to do it, is the reward.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So, Gil, Jason, where can we find you? Where, where's your website? Where's where can we get information from you? What links?

Gil De Leon: Okay. I check this out, Sam, remember I said we're building and plant flock. We barely got wings. We just got the engine and Jason and I and Josh are building the plane.[01:07:00]

Gil De Leon: That's where we're at right now. But it's, it's always good to build a team first, get the vision out there to get the team. But we're there, we have, so right now, operation Region, we're, we're starting a credit website for that, for Life on the Sun Mission region. It's, it's getting there, but we wanna do it right.

Gil De Leon: So right now, if you do wanna find us, find me on LinkedIn Operation Region, find me on Facebook. I also started and, and, and brought to existence the program, battlefield Def Fairfield from Soil Health Academy. So our team is really connected, but Bottomline Front Finance on LinkedIn and Facebook. And to be further established, we're not gonna rush the credit website like most organizations do.

Gil De Leon: We wanna focus on building the team. We have the team, but we want more because it's all inclusive. And we're right now building strategic partnerships with several entities. We wanna do that first before we build the website because our focus is focused on the land team right now.

Jason Martin: We already have partner farms coming in right now with us, before we have a website because to us, the substance of [01:08:00] the thing you say you are matters a lot

Jason Martin: more than words that you can put on a thing right quick to show a little presence.

Jason Martin: For us, we have to have a place to be able to receive people into these things in meaningful ways. So it's not just, oh wow, that's really interesting. Oh, I have to swing back around to it here in a little while. You know, I mean, in in, in the realm of opportunities, the aha moments are the opportunities and you have to be ready to convert on those.

Jason Martin: You have to be ready to lay out a path of faithfulness for them if they should wanna pursue that. And it has to be a meaningful one. So we're doing a lot of infrastructure. It's been years we've been investing, building. And gaining partnerships throughout this entire region of Love Valley and love County in Oklahoma.

Jason Martin: And, and that's coming very close right now. And we brought in some key partners and and are already looking at expansion before the website. But that's the way these things go. You know, you're, you, you [01:09:00] sew before you reef, there's a lot of work that goes

Jason Martin: in before you get to reap the harvest of attention. And so, you know, the, that will come in its time and we're excited about it and the time's coming sooner than later. So we're excited about that as well.

Gil De Leon: Exactly. And, and, and, and doing this, we're looking for the right donors and investors that truly believe in this movement that we want to partner with.

Gil De Leon: Right. And if people are really interested, reach me on LinkedIn and Facebook. We'll invite you to the ranch and we'll give you an intimate experience because the website's important, but it's not our priority right now. And back to Jason's point, it's, it's, it's. It's bigger than the website. We don't need it.

Gil De Leon: Not right now, at least

Jason Martin: timing and sequence. You know, we've created some. Multi

Jason Martin: 10 million cash flows in the past two years as well.

Jason Martin: All of which money that funds and propels this. So we're very creative the way we think and it's not, Hey, give us your money cuz we want to do something, we're already doing it.

Jason Martin: And if we want your, if you want to put your money in what we're doing or your time in what [01:10:00] we're doing, we want you to know what you can expect to get back exactly what's gonna happen with that. And exactly what it is you're moving towards investing in with either your time, your talents or your capital. And so, you know, to, to release that early, to, to go to a market, so to say prematurely. I think there's way too much of that already and it almost puts it in a category with the rest of it, you know, so we're trying to be patient and and it's the way of a farmer we're having to learn. Many of these farmers and ranchers know lots of patience and what that looks like. We're, we're having to be amateurs in right Gil?

Gil De Leon: That's right. I mean, yeah, that's right. That's right. What is you guys, Sam, and, and thank you for hosting us by the way, because this is how we share our journey. It's how people get to know about us, but we want, it's not about us, right? It's, we want to share it because it's about the receiving end, it's about them.

Gil De Leon: And they're already part of teamwork that ignore it or not some way should form. And that's how inclusive [01:11:00] we are. And we're gonna have to be to get where we need to go. So thank you, Sam, for I wanna thank you too. Know, allowing me. I wanna thank you two gentlemen, Jason, and

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I wanna thank both you gentlemen, because this has been amazing.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: This has been great. I'm all fired up. I wish I could get into this. My, my field is medicine, but if I can help. My patience, any and my listeners and my viewers, future patients that, cuz right now I'm not practicing. But if I can help them learn how to make their life better and make better the lives around them by doing this, by, by doing various things, by speaking truth to power, then, then that's what my goal is.

Gil De Leon: Wow. Well you just perked Jason's ears. That's saw his ear me up.

Jason Martin: I think he knows it already. Well, we'll have to have more conversations, Sam. Yes,

Gil De Leon: man. Oh my goodness. Well man, that's awesome. That's awesome. Again, thank you ma'am. Thank you.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you. [01:12:00] Thank you, Jason.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Great

Jason Martin: pleasure, Sam. Thanks so much.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just a reminder for everyone out there, duty, uniform of the day, the full armor of God. Let's all make courage more contagious than fear.

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